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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.72%
No 256 50.59%
Unsure 49 9.68%
Voters: 506. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-12-2022, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,723 posts, read 7,647,802 times
Reputation: 22640

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Apparently the T-64s weren't enough, they are refurbishing more T-62s. That tank was introduced over 60 years ago.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russia-pla...ks-to-service/
Quote:
Russia is trying to retrofit outdated armored vehicles. The 103rd Armored Plant near Chita received a contract to repair and improve about 800 Т-62 tanks for a period of three years.

This was announced by Andrei Gurulev, Zabaykalsky Krai Duma deputy.

“Returned to Zabaykalsky Krai, where I inspected the 103rd Armored Repair Plant in Atamanovka, near Chita. The plant is fully assured with contracts for the next 3 years; [they will be making] 800 tanks during this time — it’s a very large order. The plant works in two shifts, is ready to work in three, and we must help with this,” said Andrei Gurulev.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,759,302 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Apparently the T-64s weren't enough, they are refurbishing more T-62s. That tank was introduced over 60 years ago.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russia-pla...ks-to-service/
From the article

Quote:
The increasingly frequent appearance of such frankly outdated vehicles may indicate significant losses of Russians in armored vehicles and problems with the reactivation of more modern vehicles such as Т-72 and Т80 tanks.
Quote:
Additionally, given the chronic problems of the Soviet versions of the Т-62М with insufficient engine power due to the installation of heavy still-composite armor protection, additional reactive armor and steel grilles will further exacerbate mobility problems.
I am literally beginning to feel sorry for the men serving in the Russian military. Their country is failing them practically at all levels. I stated earlier today Russia's biggest threat in Ukraine is not the Ukrainians but mutiny.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:57 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,786 posts, read 17,549,673 times
Reputation: 37655
Ukraine, by pulling off whatever it did on the Kerch Bridge, has demonstrated why it is winning the war, while Russia, by launching a barrage of irreplaceable $10M rockets against civilian targets, demonstrates again why it is losing.


Cleverly, Ukraine has been mum about how the attack was pulled off. That allows for lots of speculation and rumors including one where Russians themselves did it.
Nothing in Russia's response would encourage Ukraine to surrender. In fact, bombing the folks back home, as Russia did, will turbocharge an already enraged and vigorous defense of the Ukrainian homeland.


Article from The Atlantic here.
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:02 PM
 
3,112 posts, read 947,202 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Ukraine, by pulling off whatever it did on the Kerch Bridge, has demonstrated why it is winning the war, while Russia, by launching a barrage of irreplaceable $10M rockets against civilian targets, demonstrates again why it is losing.


Cleverly, Ukraine has been mum about how the attack was pulled off. That allows for lots of speculation and rumors including one where Russians themselves did it.
Nothing in Russia's response would encourage Ukraine to surrender. In fact, bombing the folks back home, as Russia did, will turbocharge an already enraged and vigorous defense of the Ukrainian homeland.


Article from The Atlantic here.
You forget we will now need to spend billions of more dollars to beef up Ukraine's missile defense systems. A missile defense system is far far more expensive than lobbing rockets.

So whatever Russia spent targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure (which they're still rebuilding), we will spend an order of magnitude 1000 as much so this *may* not happen again. And I put "may" in quotes, because we don't know how much better our missile defense systems will do.

But I guess we will find out!
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:16 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,786 posts, read 17,549,673 times
Reputation: 37655
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
You forget we will now need to spend billions of more dollars to beef up Ukraine's missile defense systems. A missile defense system is far far more expensive than lobbing rockets.

So whatever Russia spent targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure (which they're still rebuilding), we will spend an order of magnitude 1000 as much so this *may* not happen again. And I put "may" in quotes, because we don't know how much better our missile defense systems will do.

But I guess we will find out!
Don't care.
The US budget is 6,000 billion dollars. If we have to spend 2 billion, or 1/3,000th of our budget, destroying Russia I am fine with that.
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:18 PM
 
3,112 posts, read 947,202 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Don't care.
The US budget is 6,000 billion dollars. If we have to spend 2 billion, or 1/3,000th of our budget destroying Russia I am fine with that.
Add at least 1 zero. It's ~20 billion.

We're actually running a deficit/debt. So when we do all this spending, it's on a credit card. If the USD falls out of favor as the global reserve currency, which may happen in the next 2-3 years, we're in a world of hurt.
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:31 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,786 posts, read 17,549,673 times
Reputation: 37655
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
Add at least 1 zero. It's ~20 billion.

We're actually running a deficit/debt. So when we do all this spending, it's on a credit card. If the USD falls out of favor as the global reserve currency, which may happen in the next 2-3 years, we're in a world of hurt.
Don't care.
I'm just as good spending 20/6000ths (That's actually .03 cents of a dollar) of our budget as I was spending 1/3000ths (and that's .003 cents per dollar). Spend, I say. Put Russia out business permanently. It'll never be cheaper.
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Old 10-13-2022, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Cali
14,342 posts, read 4,686,280 times
Reputation: 8382
My number one concern is if or when Putin escalates the war by using chemical or bio weapon against the Ukrainians, then what? Are we going to give the Ukrainians bio or chem weapon to strike back against Russian cities and start a WW3? Or are we going to step back and do absolutely nothing like when Saddam dropped chemical weapon on the Kurds?
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Old 10-13-2022, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,971 posts, read 9,710,090 times
Reputation: 23287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Ma View Post
My number one concern is if or when Putin escalates the war by using chemical or bio weapon against the Ukrainians, then what? Are we going to give the Ukrainians bio or chem weapon to strike back against Russian cities and start a WW3? Or are we going to step back and do absolutely nothing like when Saddam dropped chemical weapon on the Kurds?
The left doesn't think we have bioweapons or chemical weapons, so I guess by their logic, Ukraine will be screwed and wouldn't be able to retaliate with a proportional response.
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Old 10-13-2022, 02:51 AM
 
51,739 posts, read 26,051,983 times
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I appreciate Putin's posse posts. They keep the discussion lively and give us a glimpse into their world.

But can't help but wonder where they are getting their info on "leftists," "the left," "liberals," etc. Much of it is so off base that, as Sidney Powell's and Alex Jone's legal filings point out, "No reasonable person would believe this."
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