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Turkey isn't even properly held to account for the Armenian Genocide perpetrated roughly 100 years. They get away with turning (once more) what was once an iconic Christian church into a mosque with hardly any significant pushback. The only reason why they're even in NATO is due to their proximity to Russia and access to the Black Sea. Erdogan boasts of the Turkish diaspora in Europe being 'its future'. But yet for some reason Russia is the neo-imperialist force? Examine the socio-political transformations taking place in western Europe. It's not Russians perpetrating it.
Exactly.
Yet the *united forces* facilitating these transformations are more than happy to point at Russia as the "source of all problems.*
We gave the Ukrainians 31 M1A1 Abrams battle tanks. They cost 10 mill apiece, not including transportation costs, spare parts, training, etc.
So I’d say the whole endeavor just in regards to getting the tanks into Ukraine and fully operational with trained crew, probably cost a billion dollars, maybe even more than that.
How are those Abrams doing?
5 have been destroyed by Russia, and the other 26 are being pulled out of the fight because the Ukrainians can’t protect them from being destroyed.
This is exactly what most of us knew what would happen.
This is exactly what will happen when they get F-16s. They won’t be able to protect them and it will be a major propaganda win for Russia after they down a few of them and then Ukraine stops flying and grounds them.
I did find it ridiculous that this article somehow blames Congress for the Ukrainian losses in the war.
How about this idea: The Ukrainians are hopelessly outmatched, and all we are doing is getting people killed even though the outcome has already been predetermined?
We gave the Ukrainians 31 M1A1 Abrams battle tanks. They cost 10 mill apiece, not including transportation costs, spare parts, training, etc.
So I’d say the whole endeavor just in regards to getting the tanks into Ukraine and fully operational with trained crew, probably cost a billion dollars, maybe even more than that.
How are those Abrams doing?
5 have been destroyed by Russia, and the other 26 are being pulled out of the fight because the Ukrainians can’t protect them from being destroyed.
This is exactly what most of us knew what would happen.
This is exactly what will happen when they get F-16s. They won’t be able to protect them and it will be a major propaganda win for Russia after they down a few of them and then Ukraine stops flying and grounds them.
I did find it ridiculous that this article somehow blames Congress for the Ukrainian losses in the war.
How about this idea: The Ukrainians are hopelessly outmatched, and all we are doing is getting people killed even though the outcome has already been predetermined?
So you're against the idea of fighting to the last Ukrainian in order to sink billions of USD into the hands of the corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs and The Big Guy? What kind of a person are you?
they didn't work..it's that simple..when they were first requested the US said they were too heavy and not suitable for that kind of warfare..they can't go through the mud because they are too heavy..none of them had anti drone tech mounted on them..tank warfare is dead..replaced by drones..give 'em more Bradleys..they are doing the job quite well..and remember, they can only fight with what we give them..
Last edited by double6's; 04-27-2024 at 05:11 AM..
Who was under the impression these were invincible? They don't have the advanced armor most Abrams are equipped with. It's just another slow moving target for drones, artillery, etc.
Who was under the impression these were invincible? They don't have the advanced armor most Abrams are equipped with. It's just another slow moving target for drones, artillery, etc.
There was a lot of propaganda from the "we'll fight Russia to the last Ukrainian" crowd that NATO had wonder weapons (reminiscent of Germany at the end of WW2) that would tilt the war quickly.
they didn't work..it's that simple..when they were first requested the US said they were too heavy and not suitable for that kind of warfare..they can't go through the mud because they are too heavy..none of them had anti drone tech mounted on them..tank warfare is dead..replaced by drones..give 'em more Bradleys..they are doing the job quite well..and remember, they can only fight with what we give them..
Back then at the time you seemed to think Abrams would help make the difference in the war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's
ATACMS are coming..but not till next year..Abrams tanks are coming..but not till next year..F-16s are coming..but not till next year..if Ukraine had these weapons last year, the war would be over..
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's
those Abrams tanks..looks like they won't get there for months or longer..but at least the promise of them opens the gates for the Leopards..those Leopards along with the Bradleys and all the other armored fighting vehicles might do the trick..
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's
nope..all 500 with the US..along with 6 additional Patriot missile batteries and Abrams tanks..Russia is so screwed..
Back then at the time you seemed to think Abrams would help make the difference in the war.
so what does it matter what I thought?...live and learn...or in this case learn to live...that's what warfare is all about..I'm still on Ukraine's side and you're still on Russia's side...so what?..
so what does it matter what I thought?...live and learn...or in this case learn to live...that's what warfare is all about..I'm still on Ukraine's side and you're still on Russia's side...so what?..
I'm on the American citizens side.
You constantly push nonsense for Ukraine and later contradict it when it becomes obvious. Ironically, you're on the side of getting Ukraine wrecked with a mountain of dead.
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Abrams tanks have failed in Ukraine
