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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-24-2023, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,250,623 times
Reputation: 4590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
At this point I trust Prigozhin more.
I don't see how your story proves that Prigozhin is more trustworthy. Maybe Girkin just didn't like how Wagner was being run and didn't trust Prigozhin or his Army of criminals and mercenaries. He probably felt like the LDNR were true patriots.

Secondly, you do understand who Prigozhin is, right? What does Prigozhin want? What does Girkin want?

What has Prigozhin been doing the last 30 years? What has Girkin been doing the last 30 years?

I wouldn't trust Prigozhin as far as I could throw him. At best he is as Lenin said... "There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel."
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Old 06-24-2023, 01:06 AM
 
51,716 posts, read 26,011,112 times
Reputation: 38001
2021: Russian army is 2nd in the world!

2022: Russian army is 2nd in Ukraine!

2023: Russian army is 2nd in Russia!

Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 06-24-2023 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 06-24-2023, 01:25 AM
 
51,716 posts, read 26,011,112 times
Reputation: 38001
"Don't wonder what will happen if Russia collapses. It already did! Years ago. It's not a state, it's a mafia front with factions fighting each other for money, resources, and power." Garry Kasparov

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/statu...602335238?s=20

"PS Please keep in mind that even more than usual, everything coming out of the Kremlin, and Russian generally, will be lies. It's instinctive and about control. Such people would not admit they were drowning to a lifeguard." Garry Kasparov

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/statu...68755928707073
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Old 06-24-2023, 01:43 AM
 
51,716 posts, read 26,011,112 times
Reputation: 38001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klobbz View Post
Pretty much, Prigozhim seems 10x more psychotic than Putin.

Scratch that, he is way more psychotic when you read about the atrocities of the Wagner group.
Wagner units are known for brutality. Reports are that they use sledge hammers to smash in the heads of their fellow soldiers.

Early reports are they have captured the weapons stored at Rostov, and are on their way to Moscow.
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Old 06-24-2023, 01:44 AM
 
26,873 posts, read 22,739,162 times
Reputation: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I don't see how your story proves that Prigozhin is more trustworthy.
It doesn't. But it explains a thing or two about Girkin.

Quote:
Maybe Girkin just didn't like how Wagner was being run and didn't trust Prigozhin or his Army of criminals and mercenaries.
At that point ( of their spat) Wagner didn't have any convicts yet. They were not part of it.

Quote:
He probably felt like the LDNR were true patriots.
They ARE.
And people that I trusted the most were actually from there. But they were practically all killed.

So another good sign for me was that Prigozhin reached out to them ( the ones who survived.)

But interestingly enough, Girkin never became one of them.

Quote:
Secondly, you do understand who Prigozhin is, right? What does Prigozhin want?
That I more or less understand.

I already said on this thread earlier many times that I see him as a politician, not just some military commander.

Quote:
What does Girkin want?
That I don't know - I wasn't interested enough. But he has a lot of political ambitions too. He has his own admirers and probably even his own unofficial party.

Quote:
What has Prigozhin been doing the last 30 years?
He was running quite a few businesses I think. He comes across as a "wheeler and dealer."

Quote:
What has Girkin been doing the last 30 years?
Not sure other than his military career.

Quote:
I wouldn't trust Prigozhin as far as I could throw him. At best he is as Lenin said... "There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel."
I hear so far what he is saying while criticizing MoD ( and not only,) and I have to say that I agree with him for the most part.
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Old 06-24-2023, 01:48 AM
 
55 posts, read 25,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
He is an opportunist. It is fine to be critical of Shoigu, the defense ministry, and Putin; but any Russian who throws their support behind Prigozhin is a fool.
That's a good point. It's like supporting the Ukrainian father Makhno. It is enough to recall the story of how the Bolsheviks used his help and how it ended for him.
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Old 06-24-2023, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,967 posts, read 2,747,822 times
Reputation: 7766
update..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmITp1Kz1yU
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Old 06-24-2023, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,967 posts, read 2,747,822 times
Reputation: 7766
and Putin responds..

Quote:
"Those who have organized an armed rebellion will be held accountable," Putin said without mentioning Wagner or Prigozhin by name, "those who have been drawn into this, I call on you to stop your criminal actions."


Putin said that the troops "who went on the path of treason will be punished and will be held accountable," adding, "the armed forces have been given the necessary orders."

"Personal interests have led to the betrayal of our country and the cause that our armed forces are fighting," added Putin.
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-puti...=1687594080616
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Old 06-24-2023, 02:37 AM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,969,057 times
Reputation: 12440
Get #*%&@$, Putin.
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Old 06-24-2023, 02:38 AM
 
51,716 posts, read 26,011,112 times
Reputation: 38001
Reading that the Russian units in Rostov joined forces with Wagner military.
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