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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 202 39.61%
No 259 50.78%
Unsure 49 9.61%
Voters: 510. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-28-2022, 08:42 AM
 
51,765 posts, read 26,087,222 times
Reputation: 38090

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
A open minded person would read both to try and assemble the truth. Russian domains have as much incentive to lie as Western domains.
What you are describing is how fools operate.

The truth is not "assembled."

Good grief.

You always start with the source on any bit of information.

Of course, there's "incentive to lie." Every body in the universe has an incentive to lie. That's no mystery.

What is worth knowing is does this source have a history of lying, of peddling inaccurate information.
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Old 06-28-2022, 08:43 AM
 
51,765 posts, read 26,087,222 times
Reputation: 38090
Still chuckling over the idea that one can "assemble" the truth.

TFFF
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Old 06-28-2022, 08:45 AM
 
51,765 posts, read 26,087,222 times
Reputation: 38090
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's View Post
^^^^no need for that..no surrender...just send more and better weapons and newer planes..
Yep.

If the Ukrainian military had the planes, weapons, and ammunition, this would be over in a couple weeks.
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Old 06-28-2022, 08:46 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,877,142 times
Reputation: 9728
Hehe, they probably didn't expect surveillance cams to be there...
Those show the hit at the factory right next to the little pond:

https://t.me/Ubersicht_Ukraine_Kanal/11205
https://t.me/Ubersicht_Ukraine_Kanal/11209

The factory was used for storing ammo and weapons, obviously a whole lot of it since the explosion was so strong that it also damaged the shopping center which is at quite a distance, about 400m judging from Google Maps:
That little pond is where it says Misky with the green marker at the top, the shopping is the white object with the big red marker at the bottom, the big factory in between:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D...6!4d33.4247351



Speaking of Google Maps, by the morning they had still not changed the Permanently Closed label for the shopping center, but at noon it said Open in order to suggest the shopping center had not been permanently closed for 3 months

https://t.me/sputnik/7567?comment=346589

And the number of reviews is 1 lower than in the morning, maybe someone wrote something that contradicted the narrative...
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Old 06-28-2022, 08:47 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,877,142 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
What you are describing is how fools operate.

The truth is not "assembled."

Good grief.

You always start with the source on any bit of information.

Of course, there's "incentive to lie." Every body in the universe has an incentive to lie. That's no mystery.

What is worth knowing is does this source have a history of lying, of peddling inaccurate information.

Definitely applies to the US and Britain...
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:58 AM
 
51,765 posts, read 26,087,222 times
Reputation: 38090
Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
You need to assemble it when all sources lie. Take your pick: CNN, BBC, the Guardian, Times, Fox etc are not news sources anymore than RT is. They’re propaganda machines. And you have to be naive to read anything from them at face level.
The truth is the truth. It is either true or it isn't.

It is not "assembled."

Good grief.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:02 AM
 
21,422 posts, read 7,528,434 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by DolceVita67 View Post
You need to assemble it when all sources lie. Take your pick: CNN, BBC, the Guardian, Times, Fox etc are not news sources anymore than RT is. They’re propaganda machines. And you have to be naive to read anything from them at face level.
I disagree.

These companies are profit making enterprises, not government mouthpieces ... and they are also rivals. There is no incentive for them to agree on anything.

If they DO agree on something it's not because they are coordinating their stories. There is no incentive for that.

They want the 'scoop' ... they would like to be the first with the facts. They would prefer to be seen as the most reliable source for news. So the incentive is to present facts, before any of their rivals. They are also incentivised to point out when their rivals have effed up, and they are incentivised to avoid being caught up in something that can be proven wrong by a competitor.

So when you see these news sources agree, you can be sure that they don't want to necessarily agree and fairly certain that they are all independently investigating the facts with the same result.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,765,125 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
I disagree.

These companies are profit making enterprises, not government mouthpieces ... and they are also rivals. There is no incentive for them to agree on anything.

If they DO agree on something it's not because they are coordinating their stories. There is no incentive for that.

They want the 'scoop' ... they would like to be the first with the facts. They would prefer to be seen as the most reliable source for news. So the incentive is to present facts, before any of their rivals. They are also incentivised to point out when their rivals have effed up, and they are incentivised to avoid being caught up in something that can be proven wrong by a competitor.

So when you see these news sources agree, you can be sure that they don't want to necessarily agree and fairly certain that they are all independently investigating the facts with the same result.
And their reporters don't have to serve 15 years in prison if they report something their Govt doesn't like.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:22 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,877,142 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
I disagree.

These companies are profit making enterprises, not government mouthpieces ... and they are also rivals. There is no incentive for them to agree on anything.

If they DO agree on something it's not because they are coordinating their stories. There is no incentive for that.

They want the 'scoop' ... they would like to be the first with the facts. They would prefer to be seen as the most reliable source for news. So the incentive is to present facts, before any of their rivals. They are also incentivised to point out when their rivals have effed up, and they are incentivised to avoid being caught up in something that can be proven wrong by a competitor.

So when you see these news sources agree, you can be sure that they don't want to necessarily agree and fairly certain that they are all independently investigating the facts with the same result.

That is unfortunately not the case. Those media are aligned with Washington. Especially with regard to foreign politics. Here is an interesting video showing one of the alignment ways:

https://youtu.be/3AY4lmpnEOc
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,765,125 times
Reputation: 3388
Here is a very good thread from Michael Kofman.....Director, Russia Studies at CNA. Senior Adjunct Fellow, CNAS. I follow Russian military capabilities, operations & strategy.

https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/st...06128874803200

Quote:
A few thoughts on the current course of the war. The Russian offensive grinds on in the Donbas. Both sides have made incremental gains, neither is near collapse, but equally, both lack the forces for a major breakthrough. Thread. (Will use some of Nathan's maps) 1/
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