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Is that how it started? Weird. I remember 1991. If the Cold War Ended, The Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union dissolved, Russia lost 1/3 of its land why on earth NATO expands territory and doubles it size? Isn't that an aggression on itself?
That’s called winning the Cold War, and to the victor go the spoils.
You can definitely see that resentment on this forum. It matches up nicely with this narrative.
He is talking bs. Russia has good relationships with most countries except the west, which is only about 15% of the world. His resentment of the west (4th reich) is good and long overdue.
He is talking bs. Russia has good relationships with most countries except the west, which is only about 15% of the world. His resentment of the west (4th reich) is good and long overdue.
That's my point. Some here believe the propaganda that if Putin doesn't do what the West tells him, he is bad and evil and can't have trade relations with other countries and the only solution is regime change. B.S. Russia has. China is their #1 trading partner and other countries. That kills the myth and propaganda.
1) Most western governments understand Ukraine's war for survival is their war, too.... Sorta
2) It’s a fight to the death for Ukraine... The danger to Ukraine is that it provoked a war with Russia over Crimea. Had it just let Crimea go, there would be no war.
3) But also for democracy, rights and values across the world... Democracy, yes. Rights, not really. Values, what values? Hedonism?
4) It’s a fight against the historical evils of fascism and imperialism embodied by Vladimir Putin, an aggressive dictator for our age... rofl, no.
5) This is Putin's illegal unjustified war of aggression... I personally believe it was 100% justified. Ukraine was treating their own citizens like ****.
6) That deliberately goes against the agreements made after the second world war that kept peace... What about Serbia? When has America ever kept any of its agreements? One-China policy anyone?
7) When Russia invaded, it wasn’t just Ukraine being threatened, the whole world was threatened... No. Only the West feels threatened. The rest of the world effectively supports Russia.
8) Europe, America, NATO and all democracies... America, countries occupied by America, America's client-states, dependencies, and countries we blew up their pipelines.
9) America is supporting Ukraine in its defense of sovereignty and aiding the freedom of her people... Sovereignty isn't the same thing as territorial integrity.
10) In the face of Russia's atrocious barbaric crimes and savage war of aggression... If Russia wanted to kill every single Ukrainian, it could. Ukraine is lying for sympathy. It has been documented.
11) Under President Biden's leadership America is standing up for democracy... Mostly true.
12) Democracies of the world must stand together... Democracy cannot exist as #2. If they don't stand together they will all fall.
13) When democracy strengthens, people win, and a world governed by fear and force weakens... The world is always ruled by fear and force. That is what government is.
14) Freedom is at stake here... Freedom is an illusion. You cannot be governed and be free. Everything you do, everything you buy, is controlled by your government.
15) Democracies are the guardians of freedom... Heaven is not a democracy, and democracy has nothing to do with freedom. We were far more free under King George.
16) It is widely understood that Trump’s foreign policies weakened America’s global standing and strengthened our adversaries... Quite the opposite.
17) Donald Trump was everything Vladimir Putin could have wished for. Trump was a useful stooge, and if he gets another term, he still can be... Trump wanted to ally with Russia. He wanted to prevent the Chinese-Russian entente.
18) Putin has the larger ambition of not just taking back Ukraine but also rolling back all the advances by NATO since the collapse of the USSR... Russia wants America to honor the agreements it made at the end of the Cold War. Russia doesn't want a hostile military alliance on its border. Neither does the United States.
19) And it just happens that the most powerful weapon ever devised to subvert NATO was Trump. Who had been doing an extraordinarily effective job of crippling NATO from within and had plans to shatter it in his second term... Trump did everything he could to strengthen NATO. He was constantly urging the Europeans to spend more money on their defense and to stop buying Russian natural gas. The idea that Trump weakened NATO is absolutely absurd. But more importantly, if Trump was president, there would be no war.
Is that how it started? Weird. I remember 1991. If the Cold War Ended, The Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union dissolved, Russia lost 1/3 of its land why on earth NATO expands territory and doubles it size? Isn't that an aggression on itself?
I do agree that Nato expansion in violation of the agreement not to do that (which was also the condition for German reunification, which the USSR could have vetoed, it had a veto right) was the original sin that started it all.
The Soviet Union was a bit like the EU, though. Russia did not lose any of its territory when the SU ended. Imagine the EU fell apart today, each country would remain the same size as before.
In my view the Soviet Union was not a country, but a union of countries, and as such doomed.
Good replies.
They won't believe you, though. Their brains have been washed so thoroughly, they can't handle the idea that they have been fooled for a year now, and that they have supporting the wrong side for a year now.
Because he hoped that the West would literally crush Russia - financially, economically, militarily.
That's what they all believed in.
That if America is on their side, they have nothing to worry about, while getting involved into this conflict.
That they would be covered and protected by America and "the West," so they simply couldn't lose this war.
There is a video of a Ukrainian soldier admitting exactly that. I think I have it bookmarked somewhere.
Ukraine had been planning a war against Russia, to be started in March 2022. He clearly said that they wanted to take back the Donbass and go beyond. But Russia somehow knew about it and hit first.
The German and French leaders have told Ukraine they must seek peace with Russia in exchange for a post-war defense pact, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal.
I do agree that Nato expansion in violation of the agreement not to do that (which was also the condition for German reunification, which the USSR could have vetoed, it had a veto right) was the original sin that started it all.
The Soviet Union was a bit like the EU, though. Russia did not lose any of its territory when the SU ended. Imagine the EU fell apart today, each country would remain the same size as before.
In my view the Soviet Union was not a country, but a union of countries, and as such doomed.
This reminds me of a divorce in the family. 1 side wins it all, keeps the house, the cars, the bank accounts, the kids and still they want to kick the other side to keep them on ground.
The U.S/West won the Cold War, the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union dissolves and Russia loses 1/3 of its territory. There is NO need for NATO to expand East and doubled their size because that is provoking conflicts and humiliating your former Cold War enemy and pushing them to the arms of China. This was a 30 year bad policy that just exploded.
I remember when the Cold War ended, the regular U.S. military did cut backs. We down sized and closed bases. My rating of sub hunting was cut drastically and many were forced to retired. The Navy had 3 Boot Camps and closed 2 with just only 1 open. This was the same for all branches. That is what NATO should have done after the Cold War not doubled it and keep going East.
Then our military expands after 9/11 while invading Iraq and Afghanistan everyday for 20 years. What do you think what was going to happen?
Until the U.S./NATO admits their blunder by design and corrects it, I don't want to hear their propaganda and lecturing. Every side has to be on the negotiating table to fix this but the U.S./NATO refuses to admit any wrong or change anything.
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