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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-15-2022, 03:31 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,843,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
From what I know, they are grilling both Merkel ( and Schroeder) in Germany now in retrospective - how dared they even to keep good relations with Russia all these years.
Oh yes, especially Schröder because of his high-profile job with a Russian company...
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:01 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,462,097 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
From what I know, they are grilling both Merkel ( and Schroeder) in Germany now in retrospective - how dared they even to keep good relations with Russia all these years.
Its not in retrospective. The US has warned then repeatedly about this, no matter the administration. This is 100% on them.
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:31 PM
 
26,893 posts, read 22,760,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Its not in retrospective. The US has warned then repeatedly about this, no matter the administration. This is 100% on them.

"In retrospective" - that's for Germany, since Germans benefited directly from good relations with Russia.

That is German economy and German business, so there was no need to criticize any of them, be that Schroeder or Merkel back in the day.
But overall you have to face a FACT ( with all your "warnings") that American LEFT political interests go DIRECTLY AGAINST GERMAN ECONOMIC interests.

In fact, they outright ruin them.

So when America is sending a *warning* to Germany, it literally means "we don't care if your economy is going to be choked ( in fact we don't mind it at all, since after Russia, you are the next competitor for our global domination,) therefore do as we are telling you to do."


For the German "left" ( i.e. all this LGBTE community and the rest of "social justice warriors") this might sound like music to their ears, but as for the rest of Germans - they should be as weary of the US as they are weary of Putin's Russia.

That's my take on it.

P.S. And Germany is a backbone of the EU economy - don't forget about it for a second. So there go down the tube the French, the Dutch, the Italians and the rest of "old Europe."

So I see a pretty interesting picture behind all this, that it's not just "Russia-Russia-Russia" that American left wants to destroy with the same bullet, but Old Europe too, the source of everything that "new America" hates with passion apparently - classical music, math, and what else is out there.
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:51 PM
 
2,389 posts, read 1,114,388 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
But the people of Russia didnt do this to themselves, Putin and other government leadership did it to their people.

You just have this strange mindset about how the lives of people in other countries has no value to you. Completely without any empathy if you view people as being different from you (which you will do at your own convenience). Pretty evil perspective.
Well, Putin doesn't care about anybody ....even his own people...
thousands of his troops slaughtered ....missing the empathy gene for sure...

In brighter news...Biden just inked a new $1 billion dollar deal for more weapons to
Ukraine ...including Harpoon missiles....
could be a game changer in the Black Sea...sink a few of those Russian ships,
maybe then Ukraine can get their grain moving.
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:54 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,843,604 times
Reputation: 9728
Germany is going down a dangerous path again: there is a new law which involves monitoring social media, and merely writing that you find the government incompetent or something like that will turn you into a legitimate target for the BfV secret service, which is supposed to protect the constitution, but is in fact a shady organization.
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Old 06-15-2022, 05:15 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,726 posts, read 18,752,815 times
Reputation: 35448
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
"In retrospective" - that's for Germany, since Germans benefited directly from good relations with Russia.

That is German economy and German business, so there was no need to criticize any of them, be that Schroeder or Merkel back in the day.
But overall you have to face a FACT ( with all your "warnings") that American LEFT political interests go DIRECTLY AGAINST GERMAN ECONOMIC interests.

In fact, they outright ruin them.

So when America is sending a *warning* to Germany, it literally means "we don't care if your economy is going to be choked ( in fact we don't mind it at all, since after Russia, you are the next competitor for our global domination,) therefore do as we are telling you to do."


For the German "left" ( i.e. all this LGBTE community and the rest of "social justice warriors") this might sound like music to their ears, but as for the rest of Germans - they should be as weary of the US as they are weary of Putin's Russia.

That's my take on it.

P.S. And Germany is a backbone of the EU economy - don't forget about it for a second. So there go down the tube the French, the Dutch, the Italians and the rest of "old Europe."

So I see a pretty interesting picture behind all this, that it's not just "Russia-Russia-Russia" that American left wants to destroy with the same bullet, but Old Europe too, the source of everything that "new America" hates with passion apparently - classical music, math, and what else is out there.
Interesting analysis. And Germany was all set to let Nord Stream 2 go live until the US bullied them.
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Old 06-15-2022, 05:19 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,462,097 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
"In retrospective" - that's for Germany, since Germans benefited directly from good relations with Russia.

That is German economy and German business, so there was no need to criticize any of them, be that Schroeder or Merkel back in the day.
But overall you have to face a FACT ( with all your "warnings") that American LEFT political interests go DIRECTLY AGAINST GERMAN ECONOMIC interests.

In fact, they outright ruin them.

So when America is sending a *warning* to Germany, it literally means "we don't care if your economy is going to be choked ( in fact we don't mind it at all, since after Russia, you are the next competitor for our global domination,) therefore do as we are telling you to do."


For the German "left" ( i.e. all this LGBTE community and the rest of "social justice warriors") this might sound like music to their ears, but as for the rest of Germans - they should be as weary of the US as they are weary of Putin's Russia.

That's my take on it.

P.S. And Germany is a backbone of the EU economy - don't forget about it for a second. So there go down the tube the French, the Dutch, the Italians and the rest of "old Europe."

So I see a pretty interesting picture behind all this, that it's not just "Russia-Russia-Russia" that American left wants to destroy with the same bullet, but Old Europe too, the source of everything that "new America" hates with passion apparently - classical music, math, and what else is out there.
Being a member of NATO does imply a certain level of awareness that you are endangering the entire alliance with your greed. There were other ways of resolving your energy needs.
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Old 06-15-2022, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,755,980 times
Reputation: 3388
Todays Update

Western officials announced additional military aid for Ukraine on June 15

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ssment-june-15

Quote:
US President Joe Biden pledged $1 billion worth of military aid, including coastal defense weapons, advanced rocket systems, artillery, and ammunition to support Ukrainian operations.[1] NATO members additionally announced they will additionally continue to provide Ukraine with heavy weapons and long-range systems and plan to agree on a new assistance package after consultations with Ukraine’s Defense Ministry.[2] This newest round of military aid will be invaluable to support Ukrainian operations, especially in the face of increasingly protracted and artillery-heavy fighting against Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine, though Ukraine will require further sustained support.
Key Takeaways

Quote:
Russian forces launched ground assaults in Severodonetsk and settlements in its vicinity but have not taken full control over the city as of June 15.

Russian forces launched largely unsuccessful offensive operations around the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway in an effort to cut Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk.

Russian forces continued efforts to advance along the E40 highway to Slovyansk and southeast of Izyum.

Russian and Ukrainian forces continued to fight in northeastern settlements around Kharkiv City.

Russian forces continued to fortify fallback positions in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts, while undertaking defensive measures to strengthen Russian presence in the Black Sea.

The Kremlin and proxy republics continue to pursue ad hoc annexation policies in occupied territories.
Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Quote:
Russian authorities are continuing to face difficulties implementing their occupation agendas due to pro-Ukrainian pressure in occupied areas. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that unidentified Ukrainian partisans targeted employees of the Russian Emergency Ministry in Mariupol on June 9 and 11.[27] The Ukrainian Resistance Center additionally claimed that Russian occupation authorities are unable to open schools in occupied Berdyansk due to resistance from Ukrainian teachers, who are refusing to teach under Russian curricula.[28] Such pro-Ukrainian action will likely continue to disrupt Russian efforts to consolidate full-scale administrative control of occupied areas and Russian annexation agendas.
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Old 06-15-2022, 05:45 PM
 
26,893 posts, read 22,760,405 times
Reputation: 10078
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Being a member of NATO does imply a certain level of awareness that you are endangering the entire alliance with your greed. There were other ways of resolving your energy needs.

Greed?

What "greed"?
There are NO "other ways of resolving" Germany's energy needs in the realistic sense of it, ( other than receiving it from Russia,) if Germany wants to remain the industrial country, and NOT to be completely and entirely dependent on some China.

Germans look at their balance sheets in the same manner as Americans do ( and then some more,) they know what the cost/expenses/profits are, and they manage their accounting department ( cost of energy including,) the best way possible, in the same manner as American business does.
Only when Americans do that - it's perfectly acceptable and normal, but when Germans do it, then (according to you,) all of a sudden it becomes *greed.*
So-called "greed for profits," that Germany should sacrifice in the name of profits/interests of America.

Looking at this development, we can't talk any longer about some "entire alliance" but rather the relations of the hegemony and some subservient "satellites," - the way the Soviet Union treated Eastern European countries of the Socialist block.

I remember it has been condemned by America over and over again, yet thirty years down the line - look what's developing...
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Old 06-15-2022, 05:53 PM
 
26,893 posts, read 22,760,405 times
Reputation: 10078
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Interesting analysis. And Germany was all set to let Nord Stream 2 go live until the US bullied them.
Yes, since it was in DIRECT ECONOMIC INTEREST of Germany and not only, because there were not only German companies investing in this project, but Austrian, Italian and Dutch from what I remember, to the tune of 10 billion Euros.

Cheap Russian gas doesn't have the efficient alternatives, it's the only way realistically speaking to run their economies.

You can talk about "solar panels" and "wind turbines" only that much, but they go as far as all those "electric cars" in the US as a substitute for your regular vehicles, which America ( obviously) can't get by without.
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