Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.64%
No 257 50.69%
Unsure 49 9.66%
Voters: 507. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-05-2023, 04:40 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 1,359,075 times
Reputation: 5150

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
"Give me what I want and I won't kill you" is not a peace proposal.

And if you're referring to the December 2022 proposals, here they are again from a Russian government website.

https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso...90818/?lang=en
Treaty between The United States of America and the Russian Federation on security guarantees

https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso...90803/?lang=en
Agreement on measures to ensure the security of The Russian Federation and member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization

Here's an analysis of what's wrong with these proposals.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...for-rejection/
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
E.g.,
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...n-unthinkable/
All what is happenning started centuries ago. 2014 color revolution in Ukraine was a planned act.
Nice try at deflection, and a poor choice considering why Operation Unthinkable was considered by the british.
But, OK, I'll take the bait as it is vaguely related.
For those that don't know, Operation Unthinkable was not a plan to invade the USSR.
The British government was considering whether they had the ability to oppose the Soviet Union when the USSR decided to ignore the agreements made at the Yalta conference, especially the part about a free Poland. Notice that I didn't say "if", I said "when". That's because pretty everyone knew the USSR was lying then as Russia is now.

Since you brought it up.
Here's their keeping their promise on Poland's free governance after Yalta.
The Yalta Conference ended Feb 11, 1945.
"Just weeks later, on 28 March 1945, 16 leading members of the Polish resistance, including the Commander of the Polish Home Army, General Okulicki, and representatives of the Polish Government-in-exile, who had been invited to talks in Warsaw under a safe conduct, were arrested by the Soviet authorities. They were taken to Moscow and, after weeks of torture, were forced into confessing to anti-Soviet activities."
...
Thus, the elections would be postponed for nearly two years: the Communists, propped up by the Moscow-backed regime, used this period to destroy the opposition using violent and repressive measures. Press, radio and speech were subject to strict controls, opposition leaders were arrested under false pretenses and thousands of Poles were incarcerated or murdered by the Polish Secret Police, backed by Soviet security forces and the occupying Red Army. British and American objections against the imposition of a bogus referendum on the abolition of the Senate, the nationalisation of basic industries, agrarian reform and the acquisition by the Polish state of the Oder-Neisse frontier, were treated as an attempt to ‘infringe the sovereign rights of Poland’


Does this sound familiar to current events?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-05-2023, 05:02 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,198,783 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by nng View Post
Lol at the right wingers supporting Putin. Putin is a eurasianist. He's invited many Turkic and asiatics into Russia from the caucaucus republics. He's very close to the mongolian president and Chinese president xi jinping. He passed some of the toughest hate crimes laws in Russia. His vision for Russia is internationalist, and any racism in russia from Russian neonazis and whatnot is basically suppressed. Ukraine is fighting for the nationalist cause, and for its sovereignty as a nation. if putin wins in Ukraine, I guarantee you Ukraine will turn into another mutt country. Sad to see supposed right wingers support this pro putin regime nonsense.
Russia is not exactly Europian place. When it was Kievan Rus it was Europian, educated and kind place (comparing to the rest of Europe) than it became Mongolian-Turkey place and this mix remains. Russia is a microuniverse by itself. Their history a heritage is not accepted by the West. Kiev is Russia. Just like democrats and republicans are Americans...Ukraina is fighting because their nazis were well paid, bribed by $$. Commies did a lot of evil and not only to Ukraine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 05:11 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,198,783 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thulsa View Post
Nice try at deflection, and a poor choice considering why Operation Unthinkable was considered by the british.
But, OK, I'll take the bait as it is vaguely related.
For those that don't know, Operation Unthinkable was not a plan to invade the USSR.
The British government was considering whether they had the ability to oppose the Soviet Union when the USSR decided to ignore the agreements made at the Yalta conference, especially the part about a free Poland. Notice that I didn't say "if", I said "when". That's because pretty everyone knew the USSR was lying then as Russia is now.

Since you brought it up.
Here's their keeping their promise on Poland's free governance after Yalta.
The Yalta Conference ended Feb 11, 1945.
"Just weeks later, on 28 March 1945, 16 leading members of the Polish resistance, including the Commander of the Polish Home Army, General Okulicki, and representatives of the Polish Government-in-exile, who had been invited to talks in Warsaw under a safe conduct, were arrested by the Soviet authorities. They were taken to Moscow and, after weeks of torture, were forced into confessing to anti-Soviet activities."
...
Thus, the elections would be postponed for nearly two years: the Communists, propped up by the Moscow-backed regime, used this period to destroy the opposition using violent and repressive measures. Press, radio and speech were subject to strict controls, opposition leaders were arrested under false pretenses and thousands of Poles were incarcerated or murdered by the Polish Secret Police, backed by Soviet security forces and the occupying Red Army. British and American objections against the imposition of a bogus referendum on the abolition of the Senate, the nationalisation of basic industries, agrarian reform and the acquisition by the Polish state of the Oder-Neisse frontier, were treated as an attempt to ‘infringe the sovereign rights of Poland’


Does this sound familiar to current events?
Polish Army actually occupied Moscow, what it has to do that people like Khrushchev ruled what Ukraine to be. The Unthinkable is what planned for centuries, and still is here when stinking banking system is in crisis again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 06:12 PM
 
47,105 posts, read 26,237,226 times
Reputation: 29599
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Kiev is Russia.
"Kyiv." Also, no.

Doesn't it make you wonder that a whole lot of countries, having tried the warm embrace of the Rodina, is trying like hell to get away from her?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 06:27 PM
 
8,996 posts, read 11,885,467 times
Reputation: 10906
A few weeks ago, in response to a post here, I stated that Ukraine should strike Russian military targets wherever they are. Former Allied Supreme Commander Breedlove agrees with me. He said it better than I could and his opinion carries more weight. Other topics include Putin's nuclear bluff and how the USA acts determines how China, North Korea, and Iran act. In other words, if we appear weak and Putin wins, then trouble-making countries know they can do anything they want with impunity because the USA caved into Putin's demands.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGSjN4qhjBI

Last edited by davidt1; 01-05-2023 at 06:36 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 06:54 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,198,783 times
Reputation: 375
Sort of synchronicity.
I mentioned his name today. And came across this not bad older piece
about one of culprits of today's problem.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/tuxPFjfuIZPQ/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 07:20 PM
 
8,996 posts, read 11,885,467 times
Reputation: 10906
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
France is sending light tanks to Ukraine. Macron vows to support Ukraine "until victory." It's great that he has a change of heart. He looked like a fool when he tried to appease Putin with countless meetings and phone calls with the Russian butcher.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k10EuYhJTcI
Not to be outdone, Germany and the USA also announced they will send Ukraine light tanks. Additionally, Germany will also gift Ukraine a Patriot missile system. NATO Chief: weapons are a way to peace. We should not underestimate Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkY3VhytqQ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,761,970 times
Reputation: 3388
ISW Update 1/5/23

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...january-5-2023

Quote:
Jan 5, 2023 - Press ISW

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s announcement that Russian forces will conduct a 36-hour ceasefire between January 6 and January 7 in observance of Russian Orthodox Christmas is likely an information operation intended to damage Ukraine’s reputation. Putin instructed Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu to initiate a ceasefire from 1200 January 6 to 2400 January 7 along the “entire line of contact between parties in Ukraine” and called on Ukraine to accept the ceasefire to allow “a large number of citizens of citizens professing Orthodoxy” to attend services on the day of Russian Orthodox Christmas. Putin’s announcement was ostensibly in response to an appeal by Patriarch Kirill of Moscow (head of the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church) for a temporary ceasefire in observance of Christmas Eve and the Day of the Nativity of Christ. Ukrainian and Western officials, including US President Joe Biden, immediately highlighted the hypocrisy of the ceasefire announcement and emphasized that Russian forces continued striking Ukrainian military and civilian infrastructure on December 25—when many Orthodox Ukrainians celebrate Christmas—and New Year’s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2023, 10:56 PM
 
21,422 posts, read 7,520,927 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
Well, the pesky fact is, prior to this year, it was always Jan. 7 for them (the orthodox)
True.

I am Orthodox and I usually celebrate with divine liturgy January 7. That is, I am just not that good of a Christian to be perfectly honest, but when I celebrate Christmas and Pascha I follow the Orthodox Julian calendar.

I think that the Ukrainian move to the New Calendar was a smart one. It helps signify the break with the Moscow Patriarchate and Christian unity at home.

I don't think that the Ukrainians should feel any obligation to ceasefire, unless there had been one arranged for the Ukrainian Christmas.

The sad fact is Russia had launched 40 rockets on Christmas Day December 25th when Ukraine was celebrating. They didn't give a hot damn about it at the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2023, 05:12 AM
 
51,742 posts, read 26,064,301 times
Reputation: 38064
If the Russians want to take a day off from blowing up hospitals and hockey rinks, they can do that. No problem.

Seems to me this would be a nice way to celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top