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A lot of people also buy stuff at garage sales and especially estate sales, and resell them. They don't always get a reciept with their purchase. In that case, it may be impossible for them to deduct the expense.
By the time you factor in the shipping costs, the fees charged, the hassle of boxing and delivering everything, plus the expense of the shipping supplies... And there are difficult customers out there who will demand a refund for the most minute of imperfections... And there's probably more I'm forgetting...
Ya, it's going to be brutal for sellers unless they can mark up their prices significantly. Places like ebay have been virtually dead for years now compared to the good ol days. This is going to probably do some of these platforms in and relegate them to the dustbin of history, like MySpace, and where Facebook is also headed.
I think the tech sector as a whole is headed into some major turbulence and some of these tech giants will likely fall, or get gobbled up.
hey, I give away FREE (GPL) software for people who sell in shops, CL or the bay....you only need moderate computer sense, or a teenager to hook it up....then everything you need to generate your schedule C is there (in fact I am writing a java app to literally generate the schedule C)
record keeping is key if you are going to sell things however.
I am reading on page 4 to see this. by the time I get to the current page 9, I bet covid comes up. so....your point? lol
The point is, the people defending this garbage do not understand the complaint here. We can discuss whether the tax code is good or bad, but that is not the topic. Nobody on these threads is saying they aren't going to pay tax on income. The problem is what the IRS has decided we call income AND the unnecessary money and time wasting requirements to document something that DOESN'T MATTER in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA
record keeping is key if you are going to sell things however.
No, it is NOT. I'm not going to keep a record on a goddamn couch I bought twenty years ago for $800 dollars and sell now for $50. That's ludicrous.
Lol "they" ? You mean the IRS ? Yeah, they are so easy to get ahold of and talk to. Also, it is uncanny how people are so nonchalant about being taxed on property that is theirs and has already had sales tax paid on it. Some items actually gain in value, and we should be taxed on that ? Do we get the taxes back we paid if the opposite happens and it loses value ?
The way I see it, is it's just another example of government over reach, they are bleeding money and need more ways to recoup it. Just as always, those that can end up footing the bill.
Absolutely, agree. I also wonder what their real end game with this is. Taxing individual on the web-based sellers for the odd thing they might sell with a worth of at least $600 or the small item you sold for a profit doesn’t seem like big enough fish. Do they want to use the IRS as a political weapon? I don’t know, but I bet there is more below the surface than we can see.
Until they realize most people will claim a transaction is of "friends and family" to avoid paying taxes on a transaction, and then they'll fervently audit every single transaction, with the help of the 87,000 IRS agents that President Biden wants to hire. Like I said, don't be naïve! Which is something I see all too often with the left.
I get audited every year and have yet to speak to an agent. Most of the stuff is electronically scored and if you trip that trigger, the agents in employ at present merely judge how much low hanging fruit it represents before the letter goes out. They dont want to dig inside moldy shoeboxes any more than you do.
fact is, tax obligation is settled law. there is no affirmative defense, like it or not. Dont like it, elect a crap ton of GOP and much of it will go away. so like it or not, everyone is obligated to report and settle on all income earned. no distinctions are made ("but no, this is from aunt methyl for mowing her lawn...."). but the tax obligation here is a helluva lot less than anywhere else civilized.
reality is, its a law nearly everyone breaks as it is not enforced....sorta like the little zig zag speeding you did yesterday to run to the store. yet everyone cries russian oppression when they ARE caught.
I have trouble believing the IRS will actually waste their time and resources to track down $600 worth of unreported income.
computers cost the same whether they are looking at zero records, or a million records. FINDING the fraud is one thing. Having someone DO SOMETHING about it is another. By law, the computer cannot send you a bill. the agent has to. (unless it is red light speeding tix....)
No, it is NOT. I'm not going to keep a record on a goddamn couch I bought twenty years ago for $800 dollars and sell now for $50. That's ludicrous.
and you do not have to. personal property acquired for use in your home is not required to be reported. not even cars.
But if you are buying couches at locker auctions to sell on ebay (hey it happens) then yes it is. There is if I recall, a legal threshold from whence you go from casual seller to income generating enterprise - even if it is a sole proprietorship. This is why if you decide to sell out, hold and auction and pocket it all as you take off to the hills with a pack mule in tow...you do not report it. the sales are in most states not even sales-taxable.
Do they want to use the IRS as a political weapon? I don’t know, but I bet there is more below the surface than we can see.
fun fact: every democratic president EXCEPT Jimmy Carter has used the IRS as a weapon. And NO republican president EXCEPT Richard Nixon has done so. Just ask Lois ;-)
but anyways as I tell people: something small times 100 million is now something large.
or put better: what do you get if you tax everyone in the US who makes over 1M per year, 100% of what they make? ans: a larger budget deficit than you have now. Granted the tax gap is not in the person who busy corning ware at auctions and sells it online, but rather the person who lives like a hoarder who generates more click and ship slips a day than they use toilet paper squares...and contractors. home contractors are by far the worst.
Save your receipts, you’ll be able to deduct the cost, including taxes, minus depreciation from your sale. I’m sorry, I have no issue with this. Pawn shops and consignment stores that are brick and mortar have had to pay those taxes and you are unfair competition.
Well, that’s just wonderful. God forbid we allow a person the freedom to sell an item of personal property to another individual, without the Federal Mafia monitoring them and demanding their piece of the action! And, out of fairness to pawn shops no less? We can’t allow that, now can we?
Look, given this is the most overt demonstration of tyrannical financial extortion so far, I don’t know if it’s the criminal activity itself, or the fact and you have no issue with it that shows the bigger problem. God almighty, we’re all doomed …. every last one of us, with this type of statist authoritarian mentality, and voluntary subjugation. The truth is, none of this tyrannical conduct would be possible without a certain level of voluntary compliance, and your attitude is as responsible for it as is the actions of the perpetrators.
Here’s the truth of the matter ….. the first point, which is really just a secondary point only, is the fact that when someone sells personal property, which typically sells for less than they originally paid for it, the proceeds could not possibly constitute a “profit” or “income”, but indeed equates to a net loss. And yet you think these private transactions between individuals should be monitored by the all powerful state, forcing the individual to either pay income tax on the transaction amount, or prove via documentation there was no gain? And the excuse you offer is to make it a level playing field for Pawn Shops? PAWN SHOPS??
There are so many things wrong with this line of reasoning, it’s difficult to put them all in relative order, but I’ll give it a shot …
1) the concept of taxing personal “income” was (and really still is) Constitutionally illegal, in spite of the fraudulently enacted 16 Amendment by the very banking cartel seizing such power 109 years ago in 1913. This was clearly defined in the taxing authority granted to the Federal government by the constitution. And the reason was very clear and straight forward … “income tax” by definition, is a tax on “income”. So it’s the definition of what constitutes “income” which is the critical point, which was defined as a “gain” or “profit” through commerce. And before the Constitution was illegally bypassed by these shady dealings in 1913, and the alleged ratification of the 16th Amendment (which should be renamed the Debt Enslavement Act of 1913), the only “income” recognized as “taxable income” were gains and profits generated specifically through foreign commerce, and excluded domestic transactions of all varieties. Foreign commerce brought new wealth into the economy from outside sources (other countries), and therefore were considered taxable, while domestic transactions were excluded because these activities did not generate “income” because no new wealth was brought into the economy in terms of gains or profits, but were merely internal transfers of existing wealth, from one party to another.
For example, if you own a car, and I have $5,000, and we agree to make an exchange, I take possession of the car, and you receive my $5,000 in return. Where is the gain? There is none. The moment before we agreed to this transfer, one person had a car, and one person had $5,000. The moment after the transfer was completed, we still have the same scenario … one person with a car, and one person with $5,000. What changed? NOTHING CHANGED. Therefore, there was no gain or profit made, because nothing was added to the economy. But, if you allow thieves and gangsters to claim 5% sales tax, and 25% income tax on this transaction, what do you end up with then? You end up with one person with a car, and one person with $3,500, instead of $5,000, or a net loss of $1,500 in existing wealth between the two individuals involved in just this one transaction. Applying that formula to the millions of transactions that take place each and every day, might explain to you why we now have a national debt of 30 Trillion Dollars, and so many people suffering financial hardship and the level of wealth imbalance is at historic levels.
This is precisely why the Constitution prohibited this taxing of domestic economic activity … because doing so is criminal theft that destroys wealth, instead of creating it. And this was all made possible by criminal gangsters operating their mechanisms of wealth extraction against the dumbed down masses, many of whom are so brainwashed that they actually defend the theft happening to them. Obviously, that’s a big part of the problem.
2) The authoritarian nature of “big brother” now monitoring and tracking all domestic transactions of $600 and above is apparently another issue you don’t seem to have a problem with, which only shows how deep the problems really are. Everyone should have a problem with that … instantly.
3) your rationale for supporting this criminal theft from your fellow citizens is to be fair to pawn shops? Really? PAWN SHOPS? Talk about disconnect with reality and rubbing salt into the wounds (among other things) …. let me recap this to see if I have all of this straight ….
So, you believe we must allow the banking cartel to surveil all private transactions of the common people in order to facilitate the seizure of a portion of all those transactions both large and small, by the cartel, in order to be fair to pawn shops whose business model is to exploit the suffering of the poor, by acquiring their personal possessions at pennies on the dollar of its retail value, ultimately capitalizing on the financial hardships suffered as a consequence of 100 years of wealth extraction by these same banker racketeers who have been stealing from the people them all their lives?
What am I missing here other than the gray matter that just splattered on the ceiling as my head just exploded?
It's all computerized now - these platforms send in the 1099 - all the IRS has to do is match it with that person's tax return and see if they declared it as income.
They always tell you to report it..now it's automatic. But only if you're selling stuff right? I'm not sure what
all is considered a service. Do surveys and crap like that count?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
The point is, the people defending this garbage do not understand the complaint here. We can discuss whether the tax code is good or bad, but that is not the topic. Nobody on these threads is saying they aren't going to pay tax on income. The problem is what the IRS has decided we call income AND the unnecessary money and time wasting requirements to document something that DOESN'T MATTER in the first place.
No, it is NOT. I'm not going to keep a record on a goddamn couch I bought twenty years ago for $800 dollars and sell now for $50. That's ludicrous.
I guess it's kinda good I can't sell my stuff anyway but if I was able to and somehow miraculously came up with 600 dollars worth of stuff hopefully they don't expect you to. I got enough stuff to keep as it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA
fun fact: every democratic president EXCEPT Jimmy Carter has used the IRS as a weapon. And NO republican president EXCEPT Richard Nixon has done so. Just ask Lois ;-)
but anyways as I tell people: something small times 100 million is now something large.
or put better: what do you get if you tax everyone in the US who makes over 1M per year, 100% of what they make? ans: a larger budget deficit than you have now. Granted the tax gap is not in the person who busy corning ware at auctions and sells it online, but rather the person who lives like a hoarder who generates more click and ship slips a day than they use toilet paper squares...and contractors. home contractors are by far the worst.
My mama is screwed. Well you did say lives like. So if you are actually a hoarder then you're exempt I guess? Plus she'd be lucky to sell anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edglock21
Everyone saying "I'll just sell for $599" - congrats, you're topped out for the year.
Someone said it earlier - there is a reason they changed it from $20,000 and 200 business transactions to a flat $600 and it's precisely to get all of those "small fish". Sellers will get a 1099 and the IRS will get your money, however they have to.
If you think otherwise - what's your rationale for the change? Why is the dollar amount so low?
.
That's an awful small amount for a year. They've always encouraged to report it but it sounds like they are trying to get stricter on making sure you can't keep over 600. That only covers like half the cost of internet annually..doesn't even cover the water bill which we are somehow expected to pay for.
I always think it's interesting that they expect money from us small fishes. Um yeah I got the money tree out back I can pay you and every Rob and Susan. Unlike Jeff Bezos he needs more money to take another space ride.
Well, that’s just wonderful. God forbid we allow a person the freedom to sell an item of personal property to another individual, without the Federal Mafia monitoring them and demanding their piece of the action! And, out of fairness to pawn shops no less? We can’t allow that, now can we?
Look, given this is the most overt demonstration of tyrannical financial extortion so far, I don’t know if it’s the criminal activity itself, or the fact and you have no issue with it that shows the bigger problem. God almighty, we’re all doomed …. every last one of us, with this type of statist authoritarian mentality, and voluntary subjugation. The truth is, none of this tyrannical conduct would be possible without a certain level of voluntary compliance, and your attitude is as responsible for it as is the actions of the perpetrators.
Here’s the truth of the matter ….. the first point, which is really just a secondary point only, is the fact that when someone sells personal property, which typically sells for less than they originally paid for it, the proceeds could not possibly constitute a “profit” or “income”, but indeed equates to a net loss. And yet you think these private transactions between individuals should be monitored by the all powerful state, forcing the individual to either pay income tax on the transaction amount, or prove via documentation there was no gain? And the excuse you offer is to make it a level playing field for Pawn Shops? PAWN SHOPS??
There are so many things wrong with this line of reasoning, it’s difficult to put them all in relative order, but I’ll give it a shot …
1) the concept of taxing personal “income” was (and really still is) Constitutionally illegal, in spite of the fraudulently enacted 16 Amendment by the very banking cartel seizing such power 109 years ago in 1913. This was clearly defined in the taxing authority granted to the Federal government by the constitution. And the reason was very clear and straight forward … “income tax” by definition, is a tax on “income”. So it’s the definition of what constitutes “income” which is the critical point, which was defined as a “gain” or “profit” through commerce. And before the Constitution was illegally bypassed by these shady dealings in 1913, and the alleged ratification of the 16th Amendment (which should be renamed the Debt Enslavement Act of 1913), the only “income” recognized as “taxable income” were gains and profits generated specifically through foreign commerce, and excluded domestic transactions of all varieties. Foreign commerce brought new wealth into the economy from outside sources (other countries), and therefore were considered taxable, while domestic transactions were excluded because these activities did not generate “income” because no new wealth was brought into the economy in terms of gains or profits, but were merely internal transfers of existing wealth, from one party to another.
For example, if you own a car, and I have $5,000, and we agree to make an exchange, I take possession of the car, and you receive my $5,000 in return. Where is the gain? There is none. The moment before we agreed to this transfer, one person had a car, and one person had $5,000. The moment after the transfer was completed, we still have the same scenario … one person with a car, and one person with $5,000. What changed? NOTHING CHANGED. Therefore, there was no gain or profit made, because nothing was added to the economy. But, if you allow thieves and gangsters to claim 5% sales tax, and 25% income tax on this transaction, what do you end up with then? You end up with one person with a car, and one person with $3,500, instead of $5,000, or a net loss of $1,500 in existing wealth between the two individuals involved in just this one transaction. Applying that formula to the millions of transactions that take place each and every day, might explain to you why we now have a national debt of 30 Trillion Dollars, and so many people suffering financial hardship and the level of wealth imbalance is at historic levels.
This is precisely why the Constitution prohibited this taxing of domestic economic activity … because doing so is criminal theft that destroys wealth, instead of creating it. And this was all made possible by criminal gangsters operating their mechanisms of wealth extraction against the dumbed down masses, many of whom are so brainwashed that they actually defend the theft happening to them. Obviously, that’s a big part of the problem.
2) The authoritarian nature of “big brother” now monitoring and tracking all domestic transactions of $600 and above is apparently another issue you don’t seem to have a problem with, which only shows how deep the problems really are. Everyone should have a problem with that … instantly.
3) your rationale for supporting this criminal theft from your fellow citizens is to be fair to pawn shops? Really? PAWN SHOPS? Talk about disconnect with reality and rubbing salt into the wounds (among other things) …. let me recap this to see if I have all of this straight ….
So, you believe we must allow the banking cartel to surveil all private transactions of the common people in order to facilitate the seizure of a portion of all those transactions both large and small, by the cartel, in order to be fair to pawn shops whose business model is to exploit the suffering of the poor, by acquiring their personal possessions at pennies on the dollar of its retail value, ultimately capitalizing on the financial hardships suffered as a consequence of 100 years of wealth extraction by these same banker racketeers who have been stealing from the people them all their lives?
What am I missing here other than the gray matter that just splattered on the ceiling as my head just exploded?
dude, you are gonna have to tilt at that windmill all alone....
and we have not even started on the states or local jurisdictions yet.
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