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This was a world war, some fought in other areas and died ( 2 million service men were not landing in Japan ) . Japan was duped from here to Sunday when it came time to negotiate. Russia lied to both sides. The US panicked believing the false Intel .
I detest that a bomb was dropped anywhere on this earth by a bunch of power Hungary men. War is voluntary . No matter what lies are told. This atomic bomb destroyed civilians. Not for just one generation. The tragedy of this entire decision is that the USA bragged. Gave zero consideration for humanity and their loss.
I wasn't alive then . I can not fathom going down to market to gather food...and the city vanishes into ashes.
Never once bought into the lives saved...cuz that is speculation. And projecting .
I deal with the reality of atomic bombs annihilating folks that were going about there day...
Again we have a poster not giving a single thought to the roughly 100k civilians dying daily in Japanese occupied places like China, Korea etc. either due to a lack of knowledge or overly rooted western perspective.
Those are concrete numbers, not speculation, totaled to around 10mil since 1937.
That's not even touching the numbers of US and Japanese losses that would be sustained and those were based upon previous US island landings.
You may find this educational, a lot of folks in 2022 just cannot get in the mindset of that time and place.
Dresden was no picnic, and unlike Tokyo, completely unnecessary. The war in Europe was all but over when we incinderated beautiful, historic Dresden merely 3 months before VE Day.
I agree, that was tragic.
And I suggest that, to keep it from happening, Germany should have surrendered in February 1945 instead of May 1945, and maybe shot their resident with the funny mustache to seal the deal. But apparently they weren't as interested in preserving their cities as you are. Remember that they were getting rather hard to deal with in that last year, even as their military fortunes waned. Whose fault was that?
The Strategic Bombing Survey estimated that Japan would have surrendered on or about November 1st, absent the atomic bombs. But in the actual event, they surrendered on August 15th. Thus, by the survey's own estimate, the war was shortened by 2.5 months by using the atomic bombs.
I disagree. Truman had to get Japan to surrender before the Soviets invaded Japan. Truman was holding on the Soviets from entering Japan and you know that would have been another war by itself. The last thing Japan or anybody wanted was a divided Japan. Not good form them or us.
On August 8, 1945, the Soviet Union officially declares war on Japan, pouring more than 1 million Soviet soldiers into Japanese-occupied Manchuria.
Japan surrendered because the Soviet Union entered the war. I don't blame them, after what they did to Germany, they didn't want that in their country. They were better off taking the American deal.
Originally Posted by Nov3The tragedy of this entire decision is that the USA bragged..
Ending a brutal war that Japan started and prevented the Soviets from mopping the floor with them? I say, YES!!!! We celebrated like it was 1999. People got drunk, dance everywhere and made love creating new generations. I'm not a dancer but I would have been dancing on Broadway Street doing my John Travolta moves and throwing it down giving 1 cent candies to kids like the last Halloween ever.
Darn it, I said I wasn't going to get involved with this thread again . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3
I detest that a bomb was dropped anywhere on this earth by a bunch of power Hungary men. War is voluntary . No matter what lies are told. This atomic bomb destroyed civilians. Not for just one generation. The tragedy of this entire decision is that the USA bragged. Gave zero consideration for humanity and their loss.
I wasn't alive then . I can not fathom going down to market to gather food...and the city vanishes into ashes.
I read about a man who had gotten off a train arriving at Hiroshima and went downstairs to use the station's basement bathroom. As he was finishing up his business, there was an awful bang and the building shook like an earthquake. He ran back upstairs to behold a devastated, flattened landscape where a major city had existed mere seconds before. If that's not a shock to the system, I don't know what is.
Personally, I do feel horrible for the innocent civilians who suffered and died in Hiroshima, as well as in the other places that were bombed. I take no joy in their deaths and sufferings. None at all. But what I ask of anyone who criticizes the United States for using the atomic bombs is this: if you were in President Truman's shoes, how would you have brought the war to an end without using these bombs? What orders, what strategic direction would you have given to your military leaders on how to finish off the war without those bombs? And if your orders ended up prolonging the war and resulting in more American casualties (to say nothing of allied and enemy casualties), what would you have said to the American people when they found out that we possessed weapons that would have ended the war sooner, but you chose not to use them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae
The firebombing of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945 was the most destructive bombing attack in human history. Let us hope we never see its like again.
Between this and subsequent attacks, just over half of Tokyo was destroyed. If you compare this to New York City, this is equivalent (in terms of proportionality) to Manhattan, Brooklyn, and the Bronx being wiped out. And as shocking as it seems, this wasn't even close to the worst case, in terms of percentage of the city destroyed. That "honor" goes to Toyama, 99 percent of which was turned to ashes.
We modern folk simply have no conception of how devastating World War II really was.
I guess one thing you missed in your history "studies" is that it was the former Soviet union that defeated Nazi Germany, after suffering unimaginable losses.
Ummm...yeah. But I'm not the one missing some very large and glaring parts of history. Sure the Soviets lost millions to fighting the Germans at Stalingrad and Minsk for starters .The German blundered badly and tried to bolster their invasion forces and take ground in Winter. Seriously... WTF? The Red Army at the end of the war taken all of Es europe from the Germans and was moving West but the Allied advance was moving West. I really don't care how severe the Red Army's losses were.
So is it your point just to try and demean my historical knowledge with this post? On the basis of how I didn't give the Soviets any credit for the defeat of the Nazis? Alrighty then. Who is it missing key points about the USSR under Stalin? Points I actually listed but you ignored in favor of trying to show off your massive historical knowledge it would seem.
And you defend the USSR. THAT is priceless. I guess in your revisionist "history studies" you missed that Stalin had a pact with Hitler. Hitler then betrayed him and invaded. The staggering and brutal losses the Red Army took before finally driving a severely weakened weremacht and SS back were all due to just a couple of your precious Russians. Stalin and his top commander and later successor Nikita Krushchev could have cared less how many soldiers died or were maimed and/or crippled.
Methinks you might need a refresher course in history not me. Stalin's only concern was with how much of Europe he could conquer and hold in thrall. And while that was happening and certainly after the war when he ordered the Red Army to make all partisans lay down and stack arms the Soviet "reeducation camps" ( to mean death camps just as or more brutal than the Nazis) saw millions come through the gates and never leave. Shot in the back and dozed into mass graves and much worse.
You are actually trying to sing the USSRs praises to me and attempt to insult and demean MY knowledge of history? The Russians were not our friends in WW2 nor after. Calling Stalin an ally just reeks. Who cares a fart in a high wind how many Red Army soldiers bought it? Maybe you should study the USSR under Stalin a bit better than just buying what some teacher or professor told you. The information you need is cleverly hidden in books though. That may be a problem. And the firsthand accounts of WW2 as seen through the eyes of those who fought it are not available anymore. More's the pity.
But things being as they are methinks you started crowing a ways before sun up. Take that however you will. Praising Stalin and Krushchev? Seriously?
And I suggest that, to keep it from happening, Germany should have surrendered in February 1945 instead of May 1945, and maybe shot their resident with the funny mustache to seal the deal. But apparently they weren't as interested in preserving their cities as you are. Remember that they were getting rather hard to deal with in that last year, even as their military fortunes waned. Whose fault was that?
Mostly agree here, however the more that has come out (or the more I have studied it) has convinced me that the high-ranking Nazis knew as early as 1943 that they were going to lose. Yet they continued a lost war for 2 more years. What on earth for?
Mostly agree here, however the more that has come out (or the more I have studied it) has convinced me that the high-ranking Nazis knew as early as 1943 that they were going to lose. Yet they continued a lost war for 2 more years. What on earth for?
The same question might be asked of the Japanese leadership. Their ability to engage in offensive, expansionary warfare was checked at Midway and ended at Guadalcanal. Their ability to challenge the U.S. Navy in any meaningful way was lost at the Philippine Sea. Their ability to challenge the U.S. Navy in any way at all was lost at Leyte Gulf. And their ability to protect their own homeland was lost starting when we incinerated large swaths of Tokyo. Thus, by March 1945 at the latest, it should have been blindingly obvious that the war was lost. Yet, they fought on. Why?
The lives of 200 000 people from your country are worth less than one life from my country. That certainly doesn't display the absolute worst kind of ultranationalist thinking does it?
When those 200,000 lives are from a country that attacked and slaughtered innocent Americans, Chinese and a host of Pacific Islanders, and were given every opportunity to surrender and end this war-YES, it was absolutely justified and deserved. The silly slurs of "ultranationalist" isn't something that bothers adults, any more than Democrats throwing out "racist" any time they lose an argument.
Yeah, I did. That's what made my point. To paraphrase the link, America bad, Japan good, USSR bad-azz. Yes the Soviet army was-and was well equipped for a ground war, and their industry cranking out tanks at an incredible rate. They could have bloodied the Japanese troops in China-but had no way to invade the home islands. Their navy was a joke, and their ability to conduct an amphibious landing non-existent. Even getting to China was going to be a cast-iron B for the Soviets, the vast majority of their army and armor was ~12 time zones away.
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And the firsthand accounts of WW2 as seen through the eyes of those who fought it are not available anymore. More's the pity. 
