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What makes a “leftist kook” and what’s makes a moderate depends on your perspective.
IMO, the GOP has moved much further to the right than the Democrats have to the left. The rise of the Tea Party, the rise of the Freedom Caucus, etc. I haven’t seen a corresponding shift of the Democrats to the left with one exception.
I don't know if you keep repeating this because you feel compelled to maintain the illusion, or you really believe it.
As I have said before, this idea the (R's) have gone more right than the (D's) have gone left is absurd and provably false.
It is just the opposite!
Just go back 20 years and look at the DNC platform compared to 2016. Or if that is too arduous a task, look at multiple Youtube videos where current Democrats are espousing completely the opposite view today, that they did just a decade or two ago.
Then do the same for the RNC and it's platform of 20 years ago compared to 2016.
In both cases you will find the Democrats have gone hard left, and the Republicans are more or less the same.
BTW - You mentioned the Tea Party as if they were a bellwether of change within the (R) party. In reality they were just articulating the fiscal responsibility they expected from their own party. That is not going more to the right, it was telling their elected representatives to stop spending like Democrats. That is hardly a shift to the right, just trying to get them to start acting like traditional (R's).
The (D's) on the other hand have embraced likes of open borders, BLM, Antifa, illegal aliens, and all sorts of liberal/leftist social themes. But again, don't take my word for it, look up what I am pointing out for yourself.
WARNING - As Dr. Zaius said to Taylor, "don't look for it, you may not like what you find".
You don’t have to use exclamation points for emphasis. I believe you believe what you write is the truth. I just happen to disagree with you.
Do you want to know a good barometer of how voters view the two parties?
See where self identified “moderates” fall in polls. More “moderates” vote for Democrats than Republicans.
In the 2018 Fox Exit Poll, moderates were the largest category of voters (35%) and they voted Democratic by 58% to 34%.
In the 2018 CNN Exit Poll, moderates were the largest category of voters (37%) and broke Democratic by 62% to 36%.
Obviously, I’m not the only person who feels that the Republican Party has veered more from the center than the Democrats, or voters in the center of the political spectrum wouldn’t be moving away from Trump’s version of the Republican Party.
It's social climate change, and it cycles every 30 to 100 years. We will adapt.
Go back a hundred years, look what each party stood for, and follow it until now. It will open your eyes. We don't live long enough to get a good look at it.
I don't know if you keep repeating this because you feel compelled to maintain the illusion, or you really believe it.
As I have said before, this idea the (R's) have gone more right than the (D's) have gone left is absurd and provably false.
It is just the opposite!
Just go back 20 years and look at the DNC platform compared to 2016. Or if that is too arduous a task, look at multiple Youtube videos where current Democrats are espousing completely the opposite view today, that they did just a decade or two ago.
Then do the same for the RNC and it's platform of 20 years ago compared to 2016.
In both cases you will find the Democrats have gone hard left, and the Republicans are more or less the same.
BTW - You mentioned the Tea Party as if they were a bellwether of change within the (R) party. In reality they were just articulating the fiscal responsibility they expected from their own party. That is not going more to the right, it was telling their elected representatives to stop spending like Democrats. That is hardly a shift to the right, just trying to get them to start acting like traditional (R's).
The (D's) on the other hand have embraced likes of open borders, BLM, Antifa, illegal aliens, and all sorts of liberal/leftist social themes. But again, don't take my word for it, look up what I am pointing out for yourself.
WARNING - As Dr. Zaius said to Taylor, "don't look for it, you may not like what you find".
Please, don't make me laugh. Check the voting of the "freedom" caucus on the the "tax cut" bill (aka blowing up the deficit during good economy bill). The end.
Please, don't make me laugh. Check the voting of the "freedom" caucus on the the "tax cut" bill (aka blowing up the deficit during good economy bill). The end.
I am telling you two that all you need to do is look up the DNC platform from the Clinton presidency, or look on YT for most current Democrats (Biden, Reid, Hillary, etc.), and see how they have gone hard left from just 20 years ago or less.
Heck, I'd bet any of you dollars to donuts if we gave them a litmus test from 20 years ago vs. today, at least 1/2 (probably more) of their positions have gone left, if not radical left.
Whether it be on illegal immigration, government funded abortion, border security, traditional marriage, prison sentences via 3 strikes and your out, homos in the military, drug legalization, funding the military, nuclear power, support of LE, embracing BLM/Antifa, support of Israel, guns, freedom of speech, religion, etc., etc., etc. the Democrats have gone hard left.
These are facts you cannot deny, so why not just fess up, rather than defending something anyone with a Google or YT search can verify?
Status:
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(set 23 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,552 posts, read 16,542,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
For starters I didn't think there were any of you left in the (D) party.
As to fascism, we must agree to disagree, as you just need to study history to see how examples came from both the left and right. Sure we as Americans might reclassify them as something else, but the people and government themselves felt differently at the time.
Regardless, as this threads topic is about your party, you must admit that your party has gone hard left, despite what some Euros might think (as if most Americans care what they mistakenly think anyway).
Just look at the DNC platform in the 90's when Bill Clinton was president to what it is now. Or listen to your own party members videos I posted of Zell Miller and Jim Webb.
Heck Webb ran for the nomination in 2016, and says he no longer recognizes his own party. He is a moderate, so if you are truly a conservative Democrat, you above all people should know I am spot on regarding how far left the Democrats have gone.
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The Democratic Party did the right thing moving to the left. But it hasnt moved "hard left" as you claim. It is still further to the right on economic issues than it was 80 years ago when FDR basically promised everyone a job and had 3 large federal programs to do it.
when people like you say "far left" or "hard left" i feel like it either has no historical context, or you mean it entirely on social issues, like gay marriage and abortion.
The Democratic Party did the right thing moving to the left. But it hasnt moved "hard left" as you claim. It is still further to the right on economic issues than it was 80 years ago when FDR basically promised everyone a job and had 3 large federal programs to do it.
when people like you say "far left" or "hard left" i feel like it either has no historical context, or you mean it entirely on social issues, like gay marriage and abortion.
Well at least you admit it, though with nuance. It is hard to compare economic policies from that long ago as many factors such as world wide economic slowdowns, wars, and the like can play a factor in how either party/ideology would deal with it.
Indeed, social issues pay a large part in how the Democrats have gone hard left, whether you think that is a good or bad thing.
Many of the things I pointed out go beyond just abortion, but obviously Democrats of the not too distant path drew a line between a woman choosing to have an abortion, vs. making taxpayers pay for it.
Regardless of abortion, the push for socialism and not making people take personal responsibility for themselves, along with being all for illegal immigration, giving them social services, etc., etc., etc. would have JFK spinning in his grave along with Truman and the like.
Heck even Bill Clinton (the last good Democratic president) would not be able to get elected on his platform and that of the DNC in today's (D) party.
That was just back from the late 1990's for goodness sake, not 50+ years ago or more.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 23 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,552 posts, read 16,542,682 times
Reputation: 6039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
Well at least you admit it, though with nuance. It is hard to compare economic policies from that long ago as many factors such as world wide economic slowdowns, wars, and the like can play a factor in how either party/ideology would deal with it.
Indeed, social issues pay a large part in how the Democrats have gone hard left, whether you think that is a good or bad thing.
Many of the things I pointed out go beyond just abortion, but obviously Democrats of the not too distant path drew a line between a woman choosing to have an abortion, vs. making taxpayers pay for it.
Regardless of abortion, the push for socialism and not making people take personal responsibility for themselves, along with being all for illegal immigration, giving them social services, etc., etc., etc. would have JFK spinning in his grave along with Truman and the like.
Heck even Bill Clinton (the last good Democratic president) would not be able to get elected on his platform and that of the DNC in today's (D) party.
That was just back from the late 1990's for goodness sake, not 50+ years ago or more.
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Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were to the Right of Every Democratic presidential candidate from 1932-2016
They are the exception, not the rule.
JFK would more likely be spinning in his grave for how far right the Democratic Party has shifted, not because of its leftward trend.
Again, I think you try to make previously well liked Democrats more conservative economically than they really were.
FDR ,Truman, and JFK who wanted to strictly enforce antitrust laws. All 3 supported price ceilings, rent control, elderly financial care over medicare.
Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were to the Right of Every Democratic presidential candidate from 1932-2016
They are the exception, not the rule.
JFK would more likely be spinning in his grave for how far right the Democratic Party has shifted, not because of its leftward trend.
Again, I think you try to make previously well liked Democrats more conservative economically than they really were.
FDR ,Truman, and JFK who wanted to strictly enforce antitrust laws. All 3 supported price ceilings, rent control, elderly financial care over medicare.
Something we can both agree and disagree with. Remember if you are hard left (even if you do not realize it), you naturally will think of Carter and Clinton to the right.
Rest assured however that on social issues, they were not hard right, just moderate compared with today's leftist kooks running the Democratic asylum.
As to JFK you speculation is flawed, though you could have some valid points regarding him. He was socially liberal for his time, however what many back then would consider a bridge too far, the Democrats have crossed that bridge, and 20 more.
If you were to be able to bring JFK to present day America, and say homo relationships were on par with hetero ones with a redefining of marriage, he would not approve.
The same with abortions on demand and as birth control, much less tax payers funding it.
The list could go on and on, but leftists of today view anyone not in lock step with their Alinsky radical agenda as right wing.
I'd be interested to know how someone can have that perspective, it's a shame I can't speak to you in person because it truly is something that I don't understand. To me, it's so clear that the Republican party has taken a massive swing to the right since 2008, while the Democrats as a whole have only slightly veered left from where they were previously. However, the further left elements are now becoming more mainstream.
As an Obama voter in 2008, quite honestly Republicans (as much as you can categorize a big group) have stayed pretty much where they were. The Trump voters are also fairly much in the middle - wanting jobs and immigration control. Sure there are some neo nazis that like Trump, but those aren't anywhere of a sizeable group.
The left used to be for gay rights and won it, after that it was a snowball running down a big hill encouraged by the mass media - 67 genders, boys that menstruate. C'mon you expect the grandma in Peoria to relate to that? The Russia hoax and investigation is just such a cynical ploy that if it works it will permanently damage the peaceful transfer of power.
The difference between the two side is that the minority points of the Democrats are being pushed as mainstream by media interests. The right can't even get their points out since they are being shut down by the social media companies. During the campaign there was objective evidence (weird head turning and reaction, spitting large tissue in a glass, collapsing in the street waiting for her limo, unable to walk up the stairs) something medical was wrong with Hilary. Yet that was deemed conspiratorial. That's the ploy Mugabe and other despots use.
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