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It's reasonable for a US president to dismiss the findings of his intelligence agencies, his generals, his allies, his party mates, his entire administration's findings because the other guy said he didn't do it? You can do better.
It's reasonable for a US president to want to normalize relationships with another global power.
Even though no proof has been shown that the Russian government was directly involved imperialists in the US want to us this opportunity to take Russia down in Syria and further arm Ukraine and surround them into submission.
That is the motivation behind this Russia howling by 'patriotic' imperialists.
I don't buy that. The US has antagonized and put down Russia at every opportunity we've had.
We promised them there would be no spread of US military to the east and now we have surrounded them. We forced regime change in a neighboring country.
We invaded there ally Syria (not good guys but that was not why we got involved in the first place).
And still we refuse to reach out to them. Any good Trump could do is foiled by the dems and republicans who can't allow better relations with Russia.
There are zero U.S. military or NATO bases bordering Russia (A nation the size of Pluto).
Check Russia's actions in installing Yanukovych to the Ukrainian leadership and the threatening action Russia took to ensure Ukraine didn't accept a European trade proposal. Yanukovych violently suppressed a protest and then fled prosecution and was legally dethroned by the Ukrainian Parliament.
Absolutely true that we illegally became involved in Syria but conversely Russia/Ukraine (American ally).
That wasn't a reaching out, it was a reach around. Better relations first require an acknowledgment by both parties of our part in wrecking the chance at reconciliation. Where has Russia conceded wrongdoing, much less a willingness to discontinue antagonistic actions against the United States?
Trump conceded everything and demanded nothing and Russia offered nothing. That's not how you mend fences and close the trust deficit.
1. I don't get what you mean in the bold. Technically speaking you are pushing the CIA narrative that we need to stand up to Putin (something we are doing and something that I don't support btw)
2. Trump's foriegn adventurism has been a disaster but you barely ever hear about all the death and destruction he is causing.
And Yemen is barely mentioned (In fact the few times it is, it is either about some complaint from the Saudis or about the war with any mention of US involvement).
Yemen is just the tip of the ice burg.
1. No, I’m following *my* principles.
2. What do you mean by “you barely ever hear about”......maybe *you* barely ever hear about it, but it’s been a frequent front page topic on google news
3. Again, this anecdote is only relevant to the sources *you* are exposed to
Another nonsense post that keeps missing the point. It doesn't matter what the collusion is. The only thing that should matter is why did Putin spend so many resources to get Trump into office.
He backed a political nobody to assume the presidency. And in return, we've had the most destructive American president in generations, throwing our allies under the bus, sabotaging trade relations, threatening stability of alliances... all of which are things that directly benefit Russia.
So keep playing the willfully obtuse angle all you want, the rest of us are focused on the why behind the actions.
Hmm...Let's see here...
"Presidential elections were held in Russia on 16 June 1996, with a second round on 3 July. The result was a victory for the incumbent President Boris Yeltsin, who ran as an independent. Yeltsin defeated Communist challenger Gennady Zyuganov in the run-off, receiving 54.4% of the vote. His inauguration ceremony took place on 9 August. There have been claims that the election was fraudulent, favoring Yeltsin.[1] The 1996 Russian election was also notable for the actions of U.S. President Bill Clinton and his administration to support Yeltsin's reelection campaign.[2]
Following December 1995, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation had achieved dominance in the State Duma. On 9 January 1996, Chechen rebels seized thousands of hostages in Dagestan, and Yeltsin's response was viewed as a failure. The Russian economy was still contracting and many workers had been unpaid for months.[4]
President Yeltsin's public opinion was at a historical low point, a fifth place among presidential candidates, with only 8 percent support, while Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov was in the lead with 21 percent. When Zyuganov showed up at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, in February 1996, Western leaders lined up to meet him. Major world media treated him as the likely next president of Russia.[4]"
Can we say Yeltsin was a "political nobody"?
I think we can.
But please do read on -
"This tendency made the oligarchs fearful of Yeltsin's departure and replacement by the Communist Party leader, thus threatening their recently acquired wealth. As a result, in Davos, Boris Berezovsky reconciled himself with Vladimir Gusinsky to make a united front against Zyuganov in the upcoming June election. Before leaving Davos, they had dinner with Mikhail Khodorkovsky of Menatep Bank and Yukos Oil, and Vladimir Vinogradov of Inkombank, and the four forged the "Davos Pact". Returning to Moscow, they added in Vladimir Potanin, Alexander Smolensky, Mikhail Fridman and Pyotr Aven. They held a series of meetings and decided to let Anatoly Chubais in charge of a new campaign organization for Yeltsin's reelection.[4]
With low support, Yeltsin resorted to some means to realize the turnaround: money, control of the mass media, use of "black arts" to disrupt the Communists' campaign and manipulation of the vote count.[4] Russia's electoral law limited campaign spending to $3 million for each candidate. The Communist Party did not have the financial resources to overspend the limit. However, estimates of the funds spent by the Yeltsin campaign range from $700 million to $2 billion. A huge amount of money was raised by oligarchs and other business interests. An even larger sum was made available indirectly by the West. Urged by the United States, the International Monetary Fund granted a $10.2 billion loan to Russia in February and enabled the government to spend huge sums paying long-owed back wages and pensions to millions of Russians, with some overdue checks arriving shortly before the June election.[4]
By the first half of 1996, all of the major mass media, both electronic and print, were controlled either by oligarchs or the state. It waged an information war in favor of Yeltsin and against Zyuganov. It sent messages that if Zyuganov elected, Russia would be sent back to the days of Stalin's gulag, reinforced by long television documentaries about the Stalin era repressions. The media also implied that if Communists take the presidency, a coup d'état by Yeltsin and a civil war would follow.[4]
The tactics adopted by Chubais campaign team included cancellation of hotel reservations made by the Zyuganov campaign, issuing false invitations to Zyuganov press conferences with the wrong times, and the publication and distribution of fake extremist Communist programs.[4]
It's reasonable for a US president to want to normalize relationships with another global power.
Even though no proof has been shown that the Russian government was directly involved imperialists in the US want to us this opportunity to take Russia down in Syria and further arm Ukraine and surround them into submission.
That is the motivation behind this Russia howling by 'patriotic' imperialists.
No proof besides the dozens of independent sources all pointing to the same conclusion and culprit?
And exactly should we go about normalizing relations with a foreign power that wants to undermine our alliances and shows complete disregard for the sovereignty of our allies?
You keep pushing nonsense that no rational person believes, making points that are easily shot down, so that tells me you're trolling. Troll better.
"Presidential elections were held in Russia on 16 June 1996, with a second round on 3 July. The result was a victory for the incumbent President Boris Yeltsin, who ran as an independent. Yeltsin defeated Communist challenger Gennady Zyuganov in the run-off, receiving 54.4% of the vote. His inauguration ceremony took place on 9 August. There have been claims that the election was fraudulent, favoring Yeltsin.[1] The 1996 Russian election was also notable for the actions of U.S. President Bill Clinton and his administration to support Yeltsin's reelection campaign.[2]
Following December 1995, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation had achieved dominance in the State Duma. On 9 January 1996, Chechen rebels seized thousands of hostages in Dagestan, and Yeltsin's response was viewed as a failure. The Russian economy was still contracting and many workers had been unpaid for months.[4]
President Yeltsin's public opinion was at a historical low point, a fifth place among presidential candidates, with only 8 percent support, while Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov was in the lead with 21 percent. When Zyuganov showed up at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, in February 1996, Western leaders lined up to meet him. Major world media treated him as the likely next president of Russia.[4]"
Can we say Yeltsin was a "political nobody"?
I think we can.
But please do read on -
"This tendency made the oligarchs fearful of Yeltsin's departure and replacement by the Communist Party leader, thus threatening their recently acquired wealth. As a result, in Davos, Boris Berezovsky reconciled himself with Vladimir Gusinsky to make a united front against Zyuganov in the upcoming June election. Before leaving Davos, they had dinner with Mikhail Khodorkovsky of Menatep Bank and Yukos Oil, and Vladimir Vinogradov of Inkombank, and the four forged the "Davos Pact". Returning to Moscow, they added in Vladimir Potanin, Alexander Smolensky, Mikhail Fridman and Pyotr Aven. They held a series of meetings and decided to let Anatoly Chubais in charge of a new campaign organization for Yeltsin's reelection.[4]
With low support, Yeltsin resorted to some means to realize the turnaround: money, control of the mass media, use of "black arts" to disrupt the Communists' campaign and manipulation of the vote count.[4] Russia's electoral law limited campaign spending to $3 million for each candidate. The Communist Party did not have the financial resources to overspend the limit. However, estimates of the funds spent by the Yeltsin campaign range from $700 million to $2 billion. A huge amount of money was raised by oligarchs and other business interests. An even larger sum was made available indirectly by the West. Urged by the United States, the International Monetary Fund granted a $10.2 billion loan to Russia in February and enabled the government to spend huge sums paying long-owed back wages and pensions to millions of Russians, with some overdue checks arriving shortly before the June election.[4]
By the first half of 1996, all of the major mass media, both electronic and print, were controlled either by oligarchs or the state. It waged an information war in favor of Yeltsin and against Zyuganov. It sent messages that if Zyuganov elected, Russia would be sent back to the days of Stalin's gulag, reinforced by long television documentaries about the Stalin era repressions. The media also implied that if Communists take the presidency, a coup d'état by Yeltsin and a civil war would follow.[4]
The tactics adopted by Chubais campaign team included cancellation of hotel reservations made by the Zyuganov campaign, issuing false invitations to Zyuganov press conferences with the wrong times, and the publication and distribution of fake extremist Communist programs.[4]
There was enough evidence left behind by the Russians that a federal grand jury issued said indictment, unless you’re suggesting that you have evidence of the grand jury acting inappropriately.
Wrong. There is no reason to think there was any actual evidence - i.e., evidence "left behind by the Russians". Federal grand juries can indict on the basis of hearsay, like the bogus report issued by Clapper and Brennan.
There are zero U.S. military or NATO bases bordering Russia (A nation the size of Pluto).
Check Russia's actions in installing Yanukovych to the Ukrainian leadership and the threatening action Russia took to ensure Ukraine didn't accept a European trade proposal. Yanukovych violently suppressed a protest and then fled prosecution and was legally dethroned by the Ukrainian Parliament.
Absolutely true that we illegally became involved in Syria but conversely Russia/Ukraine (American ally).
That wasn't a reaching out, it was a reach around. Better relations first require an acknowledgment by both parties of our part in wrecking the chance at reconciliation. Where has Russia conceded wrongdoing, much less a willingness to discontinue antagonistic actions against the United States?
Trump conceded everything and demanded nothing and Russia offered nothing. That's not how you mend fences and close the trust deficit.
1.Check Kazakhstan and Turkey.
Also sending US military aid to Ukraine is an indirect way pushing NATO in. Poland is also an example of US eastward encroachment (something, once again, we promised not to do).
2. Yanukovych may be pro-Russian, but that is not excuse to formulated an illegal coup. Furthermore, Poroshenko is far worse, a pure NATO puppet, corrupt oligarch, who was hand selected by the United States. If you cannot see how that helped cause the Crimea crisis I don't know what else to say to you.
3. Putin is anti-American, but he only came to power because of our actions in the 90s, and to this day we continue to push Russians towards Putin by making us their enemy.
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