russia's goal in interferring? (generation, candidacy, ethics, Reagan)

[Something Needs To Change]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

A complementary view to the above post (#78) is that the American "right wing" was less concerned about free-market economics than about about nationalism. Russia (as part of the USSR) was the enemy because it was a competing power, encroaching on American hegemony and challenging the American narrative. How? Besides the obvious military issue, America claimed to be the shining city on the hill, the great and transformative hope of mankind. The USSR claimed essentially the same thing. That made it the enemy.

With the collapse of the USSR, Russia ceased to be the most overt national enemy, as it lost its military and political power, and more importantly, the pretense of legitimacy for a competing national narrative. Instead, modern Russia is conceivably an ally of convenience for American nationalism; nominally Christian white-people united in opposition to nominally Muslim brown people. So now, the American right-wing is oddly enough pro-Russia.

Meanwhile, the American left-wing tends to be internationalist. Skeptical of rampant nationalism, it viewed the USSR with less animosity than the right-wing viewed it. But since the collapse of the USSR, the cause of internationalism was more enhanced by support for Western Europe, with Russia becoming something of an adversary to Western Europe. Thus now the American left-wing is more anti-Russia, while the right-wing is more pro-Russia. Ironic, isn't it?

Everybody! Sir means Madam Erasure's post! ( Non-members can't see numbers ).

WOW!!! MORE information!!!! Ohio_peasant Sir We ( I ) am so Happy for Your imparting such detail Wisdom Sir!!!

Beachie123 are You excited by all this??? Please be for we got answers now!!!

Sir, Thank You sooo much for the detailed response!!! We ( I ) do not take Your time for granted! You are helping sooo many without knowing.

This makes me PROUD!!! I knew Elders were capable of guiding / providing / responding to our hunger! Thank You!

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Something Needs To Change

( A ROOM of Teens screeches with HAPPINESS LOL)

( Taking turns reading to each other Your commentary... Some so happy with tears in our eyes... )

Madam Erasure we ( I ) humbly honor the time You invested on behalf of sensitive, hungry teens for Truth. Maybe Adults cannot remember their teen years when inquiry felt within like a matter of life and death. Desperation to KNOW!! A feeling as if one will die if not answered, so easy to be given a broken heart.

I am super excited at Your response! Already divided in small teams to research various facts You presented that we ( I ) was unaware of. I love learning! Yes, I love research even for its own sake! LOL ( Parents briefly inquire what has us a blazed LOL )

Thank You deeply for imparting Your living experience / knowledge freely. You have given us ( me ) much to seek. Can You feel Our Thankful kisses on Your cheek? I don't care if this moment seem unbecoming of a teen of religious / conservative background, I only care that You can feel our JOY!!

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!! Yes Madam it HELPS!!!

Easy there, what an excitable bunch)))

Too many Twinkies today? (You are welcome)

( But yeah - I was trying to explain same things to my son who is interested in politics; granted I can read Russian, he can't. So he trusts my judgement more or less... )

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by beachie123

i have searched but i cannot find the answer to my question. i'm sure it's here buried somewhere in a long thread. doing a search doesn't really help because all words used to search are just too general...russia interference, u.s. elections, trump, clinton, and combo's of some of those words, etc. so i apologize if this has been discussed and i just can't find it. and i'm also sorry if this is a dumb question.

i am confused about why, exactly, russia would interfere in our presidential elections. what was the goal? they didn't want clinton to win? if so, why exactly? they wanted trump to win? if so, why exactly? and how did they interfere? what was done? and who did it?

NATO.

Simple.

They want NATO infighting and the USA to be out or fighting with NATO - just like now.

In addition, since they have zero economy and lots of unemployed programmers, the government (and other spammers) hire them to "make money" for the Regime in various ways.

But basically Putin has stated (out loud) that he thinks our way of life is not the right way and his is. That is on the record.

But the short answer is that he wants to screw us up so we cannot help protect Europe and the countries near Russia - as he wants to expand into them (influence, etc.).

In short, they got what they wanted. There are also plenty of other benefits as their billionaires will definitely support Trump and all his staff and generals forever by buying expensive condos and figuring out other ways to hire them as agents for Russian interests.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

A complementary view to the above post (#78) is that the American "right wing" was less concerned about free-market economics than about about nationalism. Russia (as part of the USSR) was the enemy because it was a competing power, encroaching on American hegemony and challenging the American narrative. How? Besides the obvious military issue, America claimed to be the shining city on the hill, the great and transformative hope of mankind. The USSR claimed essentially the same thing. That made it the enemy.

With the collapse of the USSR, Russia ceased to be the most overt national enemy, as it lost its military and political power, and more importantly, the pretense of legitimacy for a competing national narrative. Instead, modern Russia is conceivably an ally of convenience for American nationalism; nominally Christian white-people united in opposition to nominally Muslim brown people. So now, the American right-wing is oddly enough pro-Russia.

Meanwhile, the American left-wing tends to be internationalist. Skeptical of rampant nationalism, it viewed the USSR with less animosity than the right-wing viewed it. But since the collapse of the USSR, the cause of internationalism was more enhanced by support for Western Europe, with Russia becoming something of an adversary to Western Europe. Thus now the American left-wing is more anti-Russia, while the right-wing is more pro-Russia. Ironic, isn't it?

I agree with what you are saying for the most part, the only thing I don't quiet understand is the "nationalism" thing. Not sure in what sense you are using it in this case, because "nationalism" is a very tricky subject in Russia I think)))

[Scrat335]

Originally Posted by craigiri

NATO.

Simple.

They want NATO infighting and the USA to be out or fighting with NATO - just like now.

In addition, since they have zero economy and lots of unemployed programmers, the government (and other spammers) hire them to "make money" for the Regime in various ways.

But basically Putin has stated (out loud) that he thinks our way of life is not the right way and his is. That is on the record.

But the short answer is that he wants to screw us up so we cannot help protect Europe and the countries near Russia - as he wants to expand into them (influence, etc.).

In short, they got what they wanted. There are also plenty of other benefits as their billionaires will definitely support Trump and all his staff and generals forever by buying expensive condos and figuring out other ways to hire them as agents for Russian interests.

What Russia wants is to be in NATO. It doesn't fit the mold made by the powers that be though. Russia has been made an enemy simply because there has to be an enemy in the European picture. Wouldn't it make much more sense?

Barring Russia from membership has only made the situation worse. Russia does not want NATO to dissolve or to cease functioning. Europeans are some of the most bloody minded people on earth, look up the history ffs. Who would want that lot for neighbors?

Russia doesn't want to be building guards armies when the money could be spent elsewhere for greater good.

[Clarallel]

This thread is so long that someone may well have said this already, but...

The main point is that Russia wants someone in power who will favor them. That's normal. All countries feel the same way, and in fact America has also waded into the elections of other countries.

Russia apparently understood that Trump was not only ignorant and greedy, but probably easy to manipulate with flattery. On top of that, Putin reportedly really hates Clinton personally.

It is not yet completely known exactly how they interfered. I believe - along with many other people - that Trump already had some kind of questionable financial involvement with Russia. Trump, despite his claim of success, is actually not a good businessman, and no American lenders wanted to deal with him, so supposedly he turned to Russia, and Russia was shrewdly happy to get Trump in debt to them. They may well have something about which they're blackmailing him.

On top of that, Russia was creating "fake news." Trump likes to make accusations of "fake news" for anything he doesn't like. But this was truly fake news - for instance, manufacturing rumors that Hillary was gravely ill. Russia had some questionable news sites (I once fell for one myself, called RT), and then created many secret Facebook and Twitter accounts to spread rumors. By doing this, they potentially influenced thousands, maybe millions of Americans, especially ones who don't have a habit of sticking with reliable news sources. Trump contributed to the problem by insulting and impugning the best sources, the most reliable and thorough sources, like the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. Even now, you will see right-wingers in this forum mocking these sources.

Russia also reportedly tried to hack into the voting mechanisms, but so far is concerned to have failed with that. So far.

Hope that maybe this helps.

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by Scrat335

What Russia wants is to be in NATO. It doesn't fit the mold made by the powers that be though. Russia has been made an enemy simply because there has to be an enemy in the European picture. Wouldn't it make much more sense?

Barring Russia from membership has only made the situation worse. Russia does not want NATO to dissolve or to cease functioning. Europeans are some of the most bloody minded people on earth, look up the history ffs. Who would want that lot for neighbors?

Russia doesn't want to be building guards armies when the money could be spent elsewhere for greater good.

That's laughable - surely you know that a couple dozen Russians have become oligarchs (including Putin) and are worth 10's of billions, much of which they have already removed (STOLEN) from the country and "invested" in everything from Trump properties (thousands of Russians in just on giant condo town north of Miami) and elsewhere.

If they cared about the "greater good", wouldn't they want those billions distributed fairly - to some extent - among the Russian people? Wouldn't they use them to create an actual economy that makes things instead of one based on resource extraction?

If they were a member of NATO, would that just be to fight off Islam? Well, I can understand that being the one thing the US and Russia have in common...neither want total instability in that part of the world.

Russia must look at China these days and think "Heck, how come they can do and build anything and we - who call ourselves brilliant and capable - are simply arms dealers and oil sellers?". S. Korea, a tiny land mass, has an economy as big as Russia.

I think a better term is adversary - not enemy. I have nothing against Russian..heck, I have some Russian blood in my veins. But stupid is as stupid does and they are a 2nd world country BECAUSE PUTIN and friends have decided to create a kleptocracy. The USA may have low standards, but I think the leaders of Europe would expect the basics out of Russia before they would consider it a friend rather than an adversary.

I suspect Russia is the only country that has thousands of nukes already pre-programmed to fall upon the USA. It would seem that makes it something different than "besties" when it comes to buddies.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Clarallel

This thread is so long that someone may well have said this already, but...

The main point is that Russia wants someone in power who will favor them. That's normal. All countries feel the same way, and in fact America has also waded into the elections of other countries.

From Russian sites;

"Our country came a long way - from B. Yeltsin, appointed by American strategists, to Donald Trump elected by Russian hackers."

[erasure]

Originally Posted by craigiri

That's laughable - surely you know that a couple dozen Russians have become oligarchs (including Putin) and are worth 10's of billions, much of which they have already removed (STOLEN) from the country and "invested" in everything from Trump properties (thousands of Russians in just on giant condo town north of Miami) and elsewhere.

Surely you know that Russian oligarchy was not created under Putin?

If they cared about the "greater good", wouldn't they want those billions distributed fairly - to some extent - among the Russian people?

Who "they" - the oligarchs you mean? Let me ask you - where did you see the rich "fairly distributing" anything among ANY people? Au contraire, they usually hire the "riot police" and make sure they have the army loyal to them. That's how it usually works; why should the Russian oligarchs be any exception?

Wouldn't they use them to create an actual economy that makes things instead of one based on resource extraction?

See, they became oligarchs thanks to the "resource extraction," because that's what *the West* coveted - the access to those resources, that Soviet authorities wouldn't give them. So that's how the Russian economy has been set immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union. Why would Russian oligarchy, that benefited directly as the result of these settings, would want to change anything now?

If they were a member of NATO, would that just be to fight off Islam?

Initially, the "new Russians" - the newly rich, wanted to feel themselves as the "inseparable part of the West" - the way things used to be BEFORE the Socialist revolution in 1917. But it was not bound to happen for a couple of reasons I think.

Well, I can understand that being the one thing the US and Russia have in common...neither want total instability in that part of the world.

And neither one wants to be targeted by the suicide bombers.

Russia must look at China these days and think "Heck, how come they can do and build anything and we - who call ourselves brilliant and capable - are simply arms dealers and oil sellers?".

That's an interesting question, because yes, Russians ARE looking at China, and their opinions are not unanimous. Those of *simpler minds* think within your lines, but more educated ones don't want the role of American sweat-shop, particularly when they understand that Russian worker is far more expensive than Chinese worker, even for the climate reasons alone.

S. Korea, a tiny land mass, has an economy as big as Russia.

If you'll look closer, you'll see that the formula behind the success of any former third world country are American ( or British) investments and know-how. Such investments WILL NEVER be made into Russia, because, when Russians are being introduced to new technologies, Americans are running a risk of Russians studying them and coming with something even more advanced; and this goes to the military complex first of all. With other words - you don't invest in your adversary.

I think a better term is adversary - not enemy.

This is correct, and that's the role that Russia is meant to play, and has been playing for long time.

I have nothing against Russian..heck, I have some Russian blood in my veins. But stupid is as stupid does and they are a 2nd world country BECAUSE PUTIN and friends have decided to create a kleptocracy.

No, the Oligarchy ( and cleptocracy) were created BEFORE PUTIN, during his predecessor Yeltsin and with the help of American " economic advisers." You are simply not aware of it, as many Americas I'm sure. American media avoids this subject all together.

The USA may have low standards, but I think the leaders of Europe would expect the basics out of Russia before they would consider it a friend rather than an adversary.

I think that Europeans do not have a unanimous look at Russia. Their opinions vary.

I suspect Russia is the only country that has thousands of nukes already pre-programmed to fall upon the USA. It would seem that makes it something different than "besties" when it comes to buddies.

We already established that they are the adversaries, ( or even better to say "competitors,") - not the enemies and not the "besties" either.
And that's how it supposed to be.

[Crazee Cat Lady]

russia's goal in interferring?

1. To cause Internal strife and conflict in the United States, and have it's people
turn against each other....and fighting with one another....causing chaos and division.

2.Destabilize the West and Western Alliances... To cause conflict and and destroy relationships of the Nato Countries and Alliances...or at least weaken them.
To put a wedge between the United States and it's Allies. Weakening the relationship with them, while strengthening
the US relationship with Russia.

3. To cause Global Confusion and Mass turmoil on the world scene.

4. To lift or ease Russian sanctions.

5. To attempt to establish a Puppet that they control as the leadership and head of the United States...or at the very
least a Dupe not intelligent enough to realize that he was a dupe.