russia's goal in interferring? (wages, ethic, soldiers, revolution)
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They were looking for opposition research on Trump with the DNC info. They tried to hack the GOP, but they kept themselves secure.
If they wanted to hack the GOP, they would have done so.
If you read up on the history....Putin hated Hillary Clinton, she bested him on several occasions when she
was the Secretary of State, and there was a lot of bad blood between them....while Trump praised Putin
and Russia....they had a very vested interest in who won the election.
i have searched but i cannot find the answer to my question. i'm sure it's here buried somewhere in a long thread. doing a search doesn't really help because all words used to search are just too general...russia interference, u.s. elections, trump, clinton, and combo's of some of those words, etc. so i apologize if this has been discussed and i just can't find it. and i'm also sorry if this is a dumb question.
i am confused about why, exactly, russia would interfere in our presidential elections. what was the goal? they didn't want clinton to win? if so, why exactly? they wanted trump to win? if so, why exactly? and how did they interfere? what was done? and who did it?
The same goals as we have interfering in every nation state that has elections and try to invade and to force elections, in those that don't.
i have searched but i cannot find the answer to my question. i'm sure it's here buried somewhere in a long thread. doing a search doesn't really help because all words used to search are just too general...russia interference, u.s. elections, trump, clinton, and combo's of some of those words, etc. so i apologize if this has been discussed and i just can't find it. and i'm also sorry if this is a dumb question.
i am confused about why, exactly, russia would interfere in our presidential elections. what was the goal? they didn't want clinton to win? if so, why exactly? they wanted trump to win? if so, why exactly? and how did they interfere? what was done? and who did it?
Obama/Hillary did the following:
-Insisted on Assad's removal
-Armed moderate rebels over and over again
-Accidentally and repeatedly armed ISIS, Al Qaeda, and other terrorists in the quest for arming moderate rebels
These actions directly threaten Assad and Assad guarantees Russia a warm water port in the Mediterranean that allows Russia to project power in that region.
Russia's geo-politics has always emphasized the need for warm water ports - lots of land, few suitable year round ports.
P.S. Plus Putin accused the US of interfering in its previous election - that is okay - it was Obama!
If they wanted to hack the GOP, they would have done so.
If you read up on the history....Putin hated Hillary Clinton, she bested him on several occasions when she
was the Secretary of State, and there was a lot of bad blood between them....while Trump praised Putin
and Russia....they had a very vested interest in who won the election.
#1 The GOP didn't hand over their passwords to phishing scammers like the DNC did.
#2 How did Hillary best Putin on many occasions? Are you referring to the time that Hillary sent sensitive emails that were unencrypted while in Russia over a Russian state owned telecom? We must assume all of that was compromised - no?
#3 There was bad blood between Hillary and Putin, because the US under Obama insisted on Assad's removal and kept arming ISIS and other terrorists in Syria - which threatens Russia's port Assad provides them. And we allegedly interfered with their last election.
The same goals as we have interfering in every nation state that has elections and try to invade and to force elections, in those don't
So you aggressively defend the Russian government against accusations of interferring in the U.S. elections despite overwhelming evidence yet assert that the U.S. government interferred in the elections of every nation without any evidence? Would you go further and say the American people deserved to have their elections sabotaged?
So you aggressively defend the Russian government against accusations of interferring in the U.S. elections despite overwhelming evidence yet assert that the U.S. government interferred in the elections of every nation without any evidence? Would you go further and say the American people deserved to have their elections sabotaged?
Not who you were talking to, but the US has interfered in foreign elections over 100 times.
Seems hypocritical to accept us doing it and accept our favorite politicians doing it and then scream bloody murder in reverse.
Lot of chatter last year in the US, UK, and Russian news media about Clinton potentially seeking a nuclear confrontation with Russia and maybe China as well. A couple of studies for the military were publicized in the past two years regarding the plausibility of a winnable military confrontation with Russia and China. The report on Russia advanced a scenario in which the US would launch nuclear first strikes against Russia and use the ABM sites in Eastern Europe to shoot down the missiles from a retaliatory Russian attack. The next wave would be saturation bombing of Russia with nukes. There are some that seriously think this is a good idea. The UK government has also floated the idea recently, which drew a sharp rebuke from the Russians.
You can see it being discussed during the election by the two candidates. The Trump campaign claimed that Hillary would start World War 3. The Clinton campaign accused Trump of appeasing the Russians.
Sounds like a discussion of which is better roasted, Duck or Chicken.... These are the contrasting and competing factors being discussed, one of Nationalism driven by Authoritarian system, both with a infusion of Capitalism, only in Russian the Capitalist are the Authoritarians, who promote nationalism as the process to keep the capitalist power centered in the authoritarian regime with a claim of taking care of the people and no burdening them with ownership or decision making.
[quote]
Russian society is shown as a feudal pyramid, the upper classes propped up by the labor of the working masses – who are usually kept in check with work, religion and the threat of violence. In reality "Upper classes: Oligarchs.
As in being: "Appointed" = Authorized Landholders and Authorized Industry and Authorized Financiers and Authorized Utility Holders and clergy controlled by an Authoritarian Leader: x % per cent.
Middle classes: Merchants, bureaucrats, professionals: x %
Working classes: Factory workers, artisans, soldiers, sailors: x% Average Citizen: laborers, landless farmers and city dwellers: bulk %
It models its past, but instead of Nobility and Royalty, it has supplanted that with what is termed "Oligarchy". In principal it is as Feudal as it ever was, only smaller than the former Soviet Union, instead of the power controlled by the Central Governance of Soviet System, it is Controlled by a Single Authoritarian. It is a form of Socialist System that is driven by an Authoritarian Principal, still with a Capitalist monetary system, however controlled by those of Authoritarian Appointment. (Nevertheless, the same premise as the same "Socialist" that Right Winger complains about).
These are contrast to what is the nature of the U.S. System which still retains a Congress that is a Two Party system, "however dysfunction and at ideological conflict" as to what is to be. Still with a Judicial System, a Legislative System and within and Executive System.
The question at hand is: Shall it be "Business before People", or "People before Business, and shall the Government by voice of the people establish and maintain a system to care for the people whom are of challenge, despair, poverty, sickness, youth and the aged.
Shall we allow and accept the dominance of Industry to control the influences of our Political, and Legislative Agenda? or Shall we allow and accept the dominance of "the people" to control influence of our Political and Legislative Agenda?
The Form of what is our America Democracy by Party and President where Party is to advise and consent is Different for that of what is the claim of Russian System which is of and by Authoritarian Premise.
Democracy is primarily a political system which is too an economic system, While Russia is primarily a modified version of a communism system, is too primarily an economic system. The old system of the Soviet was an economic system, that was controlled by the collective of authoritarians, where as now it is controlled by a single authoritarian, yet still a Communist system and still and economic system. As before all things flow to the government and from the government was disseminated out to the people in measured portion.
To say that Russia almost became a Democracy is a far cry from what it was morphing itself to be. It never relinquished the aspiration to be what it is, it simply sought a modified means to be and maintain being, it simply endorsed a spread of more capitalistic liberty in the hands of the people, again, in measured portion. the cast and class system of Authoritarian Premise remains.
People should confuse what they see, not be blinded by the effects of capitalism, to not know what is the differences.
Russian will never allow Capitalism to take dominance and dismantle its system of Authoritarian Rule.
On the other hand in America, it is in a fight and struggle, to fight against Capitalism to usurp Democracy... The history of both respective nations is a quandary of many factor's that go back many decades as well a centuries.
America Democracy found it challenge in what became a type of Feudal System strongly influenced and driven by Race and Capitalist, that have long sought to usurp the premise of its founding as being a Democracy..
America has much potential to make change to support the premise of Democracy; whereas Russia does not have potential to make change to support being anything other than an Autocracy.
American legislated away the Feudal structure of Race in its governance declaration, and it struggles to fight against capitalism influencing and seeking to usurp Democracy for the premise of Capitalist Authoritarianism, as in pretending to be of claim to be Nationalist in the current administrative agenda. Where it makes claim to be in support of the people, but only to the ends that the people support its position to be and become a nationalist society, that has capitalist who make use of Religion to endear the people to a form of Capitalist Authoritarian influence over its Governance, with dire aim to be as much a one party program, with a minimized presence of a second party that exist with no powers nor stature ... thus so in essence, to be an Authoritarian system where privatization become the promoted program, not by appointment of Industrial Leadership, by by the monetary premise of Capitalist powers influencing and directing national policy, with a strong premise of Far Right Religious ideals that control the Ethics of the nations peoples conscience premise in how it is governed and how it governs.
To achieve such ends, it abhor's Regulatory Governance, because Regulatory Governance implies strong Democratic Processes. It claims State Rights, over Federal Regulatory Governance, thus so, depending on the power of capitalism within a State and the stand of Religious Right Ideology within State, it can influences States by such powers and push a frame of Nationalism that is secularized by how States function, as well as how States stand against one another, more than work in unison with one another. It's a format of what was "Confederate System and Confederate Ideology, that promotes much of what is the Antebellum ideals of a Capitalist system of Feudal composure where class and cast is driven by capitalist dominance. Thus usurping the Federalism of Democracy. Democracy then become to be controlled by the Capitalist, who become by default, Secular Authoritarian States, thus reshaping itself as what is a Confederacy, more that supporting what is a Union of States, as in dismantling what is the United States under the Federal System of Union premise.
People need to better know how to look that they may better be able to discern what they see... Then the discerned views present a clarity that is overt.
America stand in the midst of a danger zone that threatens the very premise of its Federal Democracy, with the threat arising from the pursuit of a Confederacy of States, that is not of a Federal Democracy.
The Current Regime seeks to impose by process, such a program, across the states, with high talk that in some ways is meant to push a secessionist tonality, which plays directly into the hands of the aspirations of building and rebuilding what is a system of Confederacy. A Confederacy then functions with the premise of secular system, that mirror the nature of what is the Russian System of Autocracy, if the premise of Confederacy Idealism can drive the creation of a Confederacy of States. This in turn become a system of appointed Oligarch's, but has a strong premise to create a similarity of appointments, by the dispatch of awards through the programming of contracts by and through privatizations of Public Governmental Functions. It then becomes a Faux system of Autocracy, that masquerades as a Democracy, but that Democracy is influenced, driven and controlled by the Capitalist.
Thus, is a modified version of what is Russia today, except as a system of modified authoritarianism, that still has a programming of Capitalism... which such element of Democracy is awarded to those whom are the Capitalist.
Not much different than the Confederacy, is which the Wealthy Plantation as Industry, industrialist controlled the political course and their ideology promoted what is the political discourse of the people. They voted but only as was dictated by the capitalist whom were the industrialist, and they choose sides based on the power and influence of the dominant capitalist industrialist within sector, region, collective as in PAC Religious ideological promotion and State. Which is nothing more than a heighten form of what is a lobbyist dominant influential control that follows the ideals of and as authoritarianism dictates of the capitalist agenda. Thus containing what it promotes a Democracy as being nothing more than a frame of how the capitalist organize the people behind its agenda. Ultimately, a form of Autocracy, with many masquerades within, thus forming what is a Remake of Confederacy of System among States.
If America Aspires to be a Truer Democracy, it must learn what that means, it means that the Majority become the premise of authoritarian premise across the nation, and the states remain being a union as under the regulatory governance of a Federally Directed Regulatory Administrative Processes and Programming, and Not, what is a Confederacy.... that has a pretense of Democracy but by default it but a frame up of what is a Autocracy, controlled by the Capitalist powers. thus having by defacto position, a usurping of the nature of what is Democracy as in being a Union of States as the United States, a Republic that is driven by Democratic Principle.
People need not be confounded, but be of discernment to understand what is at risk...
The Confederacy, nor is a Confederacy concerned with what is Diplomatic Relations, it is of concern only what what is a Trade Relation.... Its is not of concern with what is a beneficent to other nation, nor is of such concern within its governance format in being such unto its own people. Not unlike what was the Confederates Antebellum system, it concerned itself with slavery and indenture as in retaining what is a "servant class", which as not to be concerned with the condition of the servants status in life, but only with its ability to be of service, unto the Capitalism system, and the Capitalist Holders and their agenda of their desired purposes of Capitalist dominion of the influential impact to drive and direct the legislation for the ends of what is best for the Capitalist Agenda. People become disposable and replaceable within the service class, and resources are not to be expended to deal with their state of being, nor their state of condition in their living, in essence they are but the members of the Service Class, useful for labor and the stand of collectives to back the Capitalist, via the manipulative controls of amassing by and through religious ideals, to support what is the aims of the Controlling Capitalist.
It's the closet that can become of slavery, but is a format of Indenture, which is not of design by skin tone, but by class of economic position as being of the Service Class.
Such as system is even inferior in relation to even the system of Russian Authoritarianism, but of much similarity in the concerns of the Capitalist being the Rulers over the masses. with the difference as in being that the Capitalist fight among the Capitalist as to what is the agenda, and they do so within State and Across State line, in default to the support of retaining the establishment of Confederacy... Which is in core Capitalist dominion not only as an economic system, but as the directors of States, and the direction of Confederate Idealism.
In base terms it comes down to what is among the first acts of Trump, and why the Russian involvement is so entrenched within what is The Trump's Campaign for Candidacy and what is within and of the Trump Administration.
One might seek to learn what is the nature of Evangelicalism, and seek to understand its roots in what was borne within the ideals of Confederacy and Antebellum society. Then one might see the contortion of what is Religion and the default to a system of capitalist influence which predominated above an beyond any concern for what is the premise of Union based Democracy.... thus is then shows itself to be of concern to support inequity among the class, but equality among its class and status that defers to the capitalist structure with stern opposition to confer with and never to defer to the the premise of generalized equality among all and full spectrum equality to the premise of religion as in and under the Constitution full premise of equality of religion. It is only of speech to make claim of Freedom of Religion only to the extent that it remains in Control.... thus is the driving force of what is Conservatism.
Conservative= holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
Many follow much with their eyes open but blinded by the influences of the a past system, that dominated much of America for nearly 2 Centuries. Slavery and Indenture under a cast system based on race and economic status, that Usurped by process the aims of Democracy.
Not much is written on the True Elements that are within the Assassination of Lincoln and his ideals of returning to the aims to build a True Democracy within and by and through the uniting of states as nation. Subject does discuss and how what became of the Confederate aspiration post war, with the begin at point of Assassination of Lincoln and the installation of Andrew Johnson, who found process and means to give back to state the means of constructive indenturing of not just blacks but of poor whites, and through Federal Intervention there was a backtracking, and the turn from such methods in overt terms of such sort, to investing in the long term infiltration of the Congress to slowly over generation continue to promote the agenda of Confederate premise. It has morphed and modified its approach, tactic and methodology, but never relinquishing its aspiration of Confederate Ideals of State above Federation for the aims of promoting Confederacy over Union Federalism.
When such is digested to comprehension, it will see what is Capitalism usurping Federal Democracy, in pursuit of Confederate Democracy which defers to the creation of what history has one presented, where not only men was considered as man, for the sake of enjoying the political and legislative enjoining of democratic process, but to defer to the capitalist as in being the supporting cast for the Capitalist and the Agenda set forth by the Capitalist.
Thus so, such power never considered ceding such power, but to present and give fictions, only to serve as the capitalist to be and become the autocrats that promote the Autocracy of State, within the collective of States as being the Confederacy.... thus pretending to be a Democracy.... but always aims to be the Autocracy of State, led and controlled by the agenda and ideals of the Capitalist, which makes a defacto Autocratic system.
Thus it is not unlikely that the current day Right Wing/Conservative has an affinity for the ideals of the Russian system. Trump has been adamant not to have complaint with Russia, nor does he see aim, reason nor thought, to speak in ways that deny his love of the Russian Model.
It is not of doubt that the Russian interfered, and they knew of Trumps aim and agenda, and they too sought the benefit and aim of his ideology, of Capitalism under Authoritarian premise, they knew and used the power of "distortion" among the many other tools in how they engaged to influence the political system of America and the American public's affinity to be party to being consumed in what is "distortion", thus knowing they would confound themselves, and the quandary of their own consumption of distortion would make them unaware of their own betterment of decision. They'd default to support that which they abhor, and denigrate even those who stood for the democracy they claim to want and represent. (Russia employed "regiment(s)" of promoters of distortion, not only on its soil, but from many corners of the world they dispatch their regiments, including those it set up both in the political position and position of authority of represent the right wing persuasion of conservative idea and those who are idealist to the ideals of Russia's premise and system who reside within these United States)...
(The Russians... they grasp the dissimilarities in their respective regimes, but they too know that Trump's means defer to the ease of sanctions, and enjoin-ment in the ideals of capitalistic controls, under the system be it autocratic, or the premise of Trump with his Authoritarianism aspiration in formats of nationalism, which is of formats as-similar to what exist in autocracy by process and thus the flow of capitalism without the constrains of Regulatory Oversight of Federal Regulatory Premise.
Neither has concern for "A Chicken in Every Pot".... but a serving of "hash stew" to appease the bellies of the masses..... for in such; the element of "Roast Duck and/or Roast Chicken" is to be reserved for the wealthy elites who are the scenes controlling establishment of system. General society is the make up of farm hand raiser's of the Duck and the Chicken and they too become the make up of those whom are the processor and cookers of the "Roast Duck and/or Roast Chicken" to be served up to the wealthy elites.
If they are lucky, they get the throw away part from the slaughter of the Ducks and Chicken and they can take the picking of what remains after the Wealthy have had their feast and mix within their hash stew, and "THEY (the masses) REJOICE with claim that the elites has served to them "Roast Duck and/or Roast Chicken".... never knowing they are eating the post slaughter throw away parts and that which is left over after the wealthy's have enjoyed their prime parts of the "Roasted Duck and/or Roasted Chicken" of which they made feast; they gladly give over to the masses that which the wealthy consider to be nothing but the spoils.
The Wealthy proclaim,.... See... I told you.... I'd serve to you, the trimming of "Roasted Duck and/or Roasted Chicken" and the people will believe, that they've been given the prime cuts for their stew... They become to relish the gizzards, the necks, the feet, the tail and hail these parts as being the better for their stew makings.
The masses gather and proclaim, the masters has set for them, "all the making of a fest..." they hail then with praise unto the masters. Willingly to give of all their efforts and labor that they may delight the masters, and willingly offer up their sons and daughters, and find delight if any of the masters who may choose to find favor in the nights comfort of and with their young.
Trump even told the people.... !!! as he said: "when one is of wealth, celebrity and power",... of the women he said: they let you grab them by the ___ !!!
he just forgot to add, of the men, they allow you to also led the men by their _____!
And he declared on many occasions, how much "he loved the uneducated".... and the people thought is was all complimentary of and unto them.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 06-11-2017 at 10:28 AM..
The vast majority of Levin's database of election manipulation alludes to measure-for-measure cold war election operations involving both the United States and USSR in the same vein as our collective proxy wars of that era. Included in Levin's catalog are two occasions whereby the Russian government attempted to affect American Presidential elections (Harry Truman and Reagan's re-election) as well as an additional 36 other times the USSR/Russia meddled in foreign elections. Did you skim over that part? Now that certainly doesn't justify America's history of putting our nose where it doesn't belong but neither does it justify interference in the democratic process of American voters in the 2016 Presidential election. If you disagree, can you tell me how many election interferences, coup d'etats, arming of American guerrilla groups, etc... it would take for Americans to atone for the actions of our government during the cold war and beyond?
As would be expected, these actions were done covertly and without the knowledge of the American people yet you claim that the American people "accept us doing it". I don't get that vibe at all. If a foreign government definitively proves that the U.S. government attempted to interfere in their elections, I'd encourage them to investigate it, sanction the United States, and take measures to prevent it. Vladimir Putin claims that Hillary Clinton had a hand in anti-government protests in 2011/2012 yet has provided ZERO evidence to corroborate it. You then point to that accusation with ZERO evidence as a justification for Putin's meddling in U.S. elections. If his charge is true (Probably not), then would you expect Putin to simply let it go because of Russia's history of meddling?
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