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Sorry, LE didn't have to make them look like loons, their own videos did that very effectively, and any American who was interested had ample opportunity to make that judgement for themselves.
And the ones that are left continue to act like loons.
The simple fact is that they were sunk the first appeal they issued for supplies. People who actually sympathized with them and might have been thinking about joining them would have realized what pathetic excuses they are for soldiers and decided that this was not a situation that could result in a PR win, let alone an actual one.
Now, I wouldn't doubt that there was an informant/provocateur in this group, either on the refuge or off. As a member of an anti-war group many years ago, it turned out that our most rabid member - the one who "joked" about molotov cocktails - was a plant. But since we were genuinely non-violent, he got a blank stare and not a "hell, yeah!" whenever he delivered one of his inflammatory statements. I was young and naive at the time, so I just thought he was weird. Looking back on it, I think it likely that our older members, who had resisted WWII, were well-aware that he was a plant.
My point being that in a sane group of people, no one takes the crazy seriously.
You do know the Bundys distanced themselves from those who are still there some weeks ago, don't you? They were telling David Fry he was not on the same page as they were. For some reason Fry thought these people are anti-government, these people are not! Several videos have been made by LaVoy expressing his respect for law, so the picture being painted by some he hates government, is not correct. LaVoy had a long stand of fighting BLM, if people have not lived near BLM or dealt with them, most likely all of people's information comes from the media. My guess from some of the people left behind they were idiots and no Patriot would act the way they are/were. This is someone trying to make Patriots look bad and LaVoy and the Ammons trusted the wrong people. Not everyone who takes a stand was really on their side.
People need to get out and talk to those who have watched the forest change and stop being afraid of rancher's cows eating grass and disputed fees.......... when this administration is giving our country to refugees and $$$ to boot for nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog
Did you even read that link? Every doubt of yours is covered frame-by-frame in excruciating detail by an expert. "Bob Owens is the Editor of BearingArms.com. He is an alumnus of Gunsite Academy, is an instructor with Project Appleseed, and is the author of the short e-book, So You Want to Own a Gun. He can be found on Twitter at bob_owens."
The article has two pictures of the shoulder harness that Finicum was known to wear carrying a 9mm. And as Owens stated, it doesn't matter whether he was armed at all. The way his arm reached around to his left was consistent with reaching for a gun from a shoulder harness. And don't forget that Finicum never raised his hands above his head. He held them out to the side. That's half-way between a ready position and hands overhead. That's certainly NOT what was being screamed at him by multiple officers.
Yes, I did! Why are even experts questioning it. The man had a planned meeting with the Sheriff he had no plans for a gun fight! You are wrong on two accounts, LaVoy is shown with his hands straight up in the air on a few videos, then looks like he tried to catch his balance and they went to the side......ever walk in snow? Then some are saying he may have been gut shot, would this make you grab your side and then know it looks like something else, put your hands up, but the stinging is getting to you.......we need an autopsy and pictures of the truck! Did Bob Owens consider this?
Just because someone runs a gun site.......don't think I take their words as golden, if they don't have any opposing views.
Someone at John Day who was there waiting for the Bundy entourage tweeted that the Sheriff looked shaken when he heard about the arrests. The speculation is that he was kept out of the loop by LE regarding the planned arrests because he was know to be sympathetic to the militia and they were worried he would tip them off.
And one of the patriots is now claiming that the reason Finicum got out of his vehicle and was attempting to run was he was trying to get to that sheriff. Which, considering he was still miles away, with snow covered terrain and many, many LE between him and John Day, proves pretty definitively the second part of your quote here:
Well before you accuse me of not knowing sh*t........seems you haven't even taken the time to find out what locals say about this Sheriff, let alone ranchers.......please carry on, not knowing is a better way to spin a good story in the direction of those who choose to ignore facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino
Thousands of educated Americans confront the government on a wide spectrum of issues from the environment, domestic intelligence, alleged abuses of power, civil liberties, criminal justice, the economy, and foreign policy just to name a few and live long and full lives, so no it isn't obvious in the least. However, when one resorts to violence or at least the threat of it, they usually come to the same end as Mr. LaVoy. There wasn't a single issue that the Bundy/LaVoys couldn't have addressed using employing unarmed non-violent "take over" instead of the delusional belief that they could confront the government at gun point.
I have stated this was the wrong move!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
All I see is grabbing for straws.
Let me guess, you only believe in justice for some? The autopsy and truck need to be presented, or is this asking to much?
Quote:
Because the Sheriff appears to have been a Bundy supporter and as such unlikely to be very bright. The Bundyites - themselves not very bright - put their entire leadership in two cars and took off on a deserted road. They weren't serious about all their government oppression BS, they appear to have thought they'd be given free passage.
Now what are you on about?
Thanks you just proved you don't know squat! Why are those Native American artifacts hidden, in inches of dust and cobwebs, for being a sacred site? Strange, seems nobody knew they were there and then they became sacred stuff under mounds of dust!
By the way may people are stating LaVoy had no weapons on him......we need an autopsy to argue this further......I am done with this one. I believe a man would not change out and conceal his weapon, if going for a fight. If one thinks they will need a gun, the hip holster would have been easier to get to. IMO
Last edited by wildflower82; 02-01-2016 at 10:54 AM..
You do know the Bundys distanced themselves from those who are still there some weeks ago, don't you?
I suspect that the best way to distance oneself from interlopers is to distance one's self from interlopers as in putting physical distance between you and them, i.e., when your protest is invaded by crazies... leave the protest!
Quote:
Several videos have been made by LaVoy expressing his respect for law, so the picture being painted by some he hates government, is not correct.
Is this a picture of LaVoy Finicum?
Is that not a rifle in his lap? What possible need would Mr. Finicum have had for his rifle during this protest, defending himself against thugs and hoodrats, or perhaps preventing the law enforcement officers he so respected from carrying out their sworn duties?
And who is painting this picture, the government, the media, or better yet Mr. Finicum himself?
I don't agree with an armed standoff, but after reading what led up to it I can understand their anger. I actually reminds me a lot of the Steven Avery case from 'Making a murderer' where the local yokels had a vendetta against this family and stooped to despicable levels to get them.
There were many small incidents over the years but what really started the trouble was:
In 2001 the family notified local authorities that they'd be doing a routine controlled burn on their land. No problem. The controlled burn on their land that got out-of-control and spilled onto unoccupied federal land. The family put the fire out by themselves.
In 2006 lightening strikes caused wild fires that were racing towards their home, so they did another controlled burn and when the wild fire got there it had nothing to burn and went out. They stopped the fire and saved their home.
The local authorities saw their opportunity to get this family and charged the father and son with "terrorism" for the fires. Not reckless this-or-that, not arson, but with "terrorism" and they plastered their faces on the newspapers as "terrorists". The prosecutor used a 13 y/o nephew with a mental disability as their star witness. The judge thought this was over-the-top and gave the father 3 months and the son 12 months. After they served their time and the judge had retired, the locals filed an appeal to have them serve the entire 5 years for "terrorism". The father is 74 y/o old and could well die in prison as a convicted terrorist over a couple of fires.
I don't condone the militia types rushing in to escalate this, but the locals should be fired and charged with abuse of power. They have blood on their hands just as much as the militia kooks, imo.
Several videos have been made by LaVoy expressing his respect for law, so the picture being painted by some he hates government, is not correct.
Whatever.....
Quote:
"There's no way I'm going to sit in a concrete cell where I can't see the stars and roll out my bedroll on the ground. … It's OK. I've lived a good life."
"There are some things more important than your life, and freedom is one of them."
"Rancher, Loves Freedom and willing to fight and die defending it."
I don't agree with an armed standoff, but after reading what led up to it I can understand their anger. I actually reminds me a lot of the Steven Avery case from 'Making a murderer' where the local yokels had a vendetta against this family and stooped to despicable levels to get them.
We've covered this many, many times.
The federal government are not "local yokels." They were not tried in a "local yokel" court. They were not convicted on terrorism charges or under part of the USC that spells out terrorist offenses.
I don't agree with an armed standoff, but after reading what led up to it I can understand their anger. I actually reminds me a lot of the Steven Avery case from 'Making a murderer' where the local yokels had a vendetta against this family and stooped to despicable levels to get them.
There were many small incidents over the years but what really started the trouble was:
In 2001 the family notified local authorities that they'd be doing a routine controlled burn on their land. No problem. The controlled burn on their land that got out-of-control and spilled onto unoccupied federal land. The family put the fire out by themselves.
In 2006 lightening strikes caused wild fires that were racing towards their home, so they did another controlled burn and when the wild fire got there it had nothing to burn and went out. They stopped the fire and saved their home.
The local authorities saw their opportunity to get this family and charged the father and son with "terrorism" for the fires. Not reckless this-or-that, not arson, but with "terrorism" and they plastered their faces on the newspapers as "terrorists". The prosecutor used a 13 y/o nephew with a mental disability as their star witness. The judge thought this was over-the-top and gave the father 3 months and the son 12 months. After they served their time and the judge had retired, the locals filed an appeal to have them serve the entire 5 years for "terrorism". The father is 74 y/o old and could well die in prison as a convicted terrorist over a couple of fires.
I don't condone the militia types rushing in to escalate this, but the locals should be fired and charged with abuse of power. They have blood on their hands just as much as the militia kooks, imo.
It has been pointed out, over and over, they were not charged with terrorism.
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You are wrong on two accounts, LaVoy is shown with his hands straight up in the air on a few videos, then looks like he tried to catch his balance and they went to the side......ever walk in snow? Then some are saying he may have been gut shot, would this make you grab your side and then know it looks like something else, put your hands up, but the stinging is getting to you.......we need an autopsy and pictures of the truck! Did Bob Owens consider this?
The autopsy and truck need to be presented, or is this asking to much?