Can someone please explain to me how "Conservative" and "Freedom" can be used together? (illegal, activist)

[Kibby]

“Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

Servitude to "rules" made by a Political Ideology have nothing to do with freedom.
Our Constitution was all about limits on the Government and Freedom for the People.

Nothing at all about how much sugar we are allowed to eat, teaching our children about Global Warming and how to masturbate, nothing at all about "tax the rich" or different rules to live by depending on color or religion.
You can't explain "freedom" to a Leftist because they only consider "freedoms" that they revere as "freedom". Everyone else must fall into line with what they demand. Nothing "free" about that.

[Bruins_Fan]

I don't like either the Republican or Democrat party. They are both all about control. What you want if you love liberty and freedom is Libertarian minded people in office. And OP make no mistake, the liberals in Washington are not interested in true freedom...not at all.

[BirchBarlow]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Conservative philosophy is real simple, and I'll dumb it down for you in 3 second sound bites:

Do no harm
Accept responsibility
Pay for the consequences

As opposed to liberal philosophy...

Do harm
Accept no responsibility
Make everyone else pay for the consequences

Liberals conflate freedom with freedom from responsibility i.e. liberals want to be free to engage in self-destructive and antisocial behaviors, but they want to be insulated from the reprocussions of their negative behavior by externalizing the costs onto society at-large. Liberals refuse to abide that one person's feedom ends where another's begins as is evident by their slavish devotion to wealth redistribution and collectivist social policies like contraception mandates, government-funded abortion mills, socialized medicine, etc.

[TheDusty]

I feel I need to address this list, so here we go...

Originally Posted by Utopian Slums

[*]freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc

That right does exist. Some don't like it, but hey, that's gonna happen. Do you think everyone in America who practices Islam is super happy about other religions. I can pretty much guarantee that there is at least one mosque that openly preaches hate against churches or synagogues. I'm not generalizing Islam. Any other religion is capable of the same thing. But I have yet to see any one's religious freedom actually taken away.

[*]freedom of speech

Freedom of speech is completely intact. Democrats have done more to fight it than any other American party with the push for political correctness. I know they mean well (or at least they think they do) but telling people not to voice their distaste for homosexuals is also oppression.

[*]freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)

Human rights apply to a fetus. If you must allow abortion, it has to have a time restriction as to when it's an acceptable option. Base it on something concrete like brain activity. I understand people think it's unfair but the best way to not get pregnant is to not have sex. People say that's hard, but is really? It's called self control. If you don't have birth control, don't have sex. And understand that the birth control can fail and you must take responsibility for your actions.

[*]freedom to use birth control

I've met very few people who are actually against birth control, and it's usually for religious reasons. I feel as though you are referencing birth control not being covered, but seriously, how it that a political issue. You can but a 12 pack of condoms for like $10. That's not that much. Buy your own birth control. And if you're employer covers it, be grateful.

[*]freedom to engage in prostitution

What? Is being against abortion is sexist, how is being totally ok with the exploitation of women not?

And I get that there are also male prostitutes, but we all know there are more women prostitutes.

But honestly, I don't care if it's legal or not. I find it sad people would want to go for that sort of thing, but I guess it's not my business. Don't expect me to pay for you STD treatment either.

[*]freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa

Vice versa of what? I'm all for gay rights, I really am. As far as I'm concerned, government has no business getting involved in marriage. They can recognize civil unions, but marriage should be left to private or religious institutions.

[*]freedom of information

You have this.

[*]freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana

Agreed, for the most part.

[*]freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

You have this.

[*]freedom from oppression

This does not exist. You have no freedom from oppression. You have the freedom to fight oppression. There is a monumental difference. Oppression will not stop to consider you rights; you must fight it if you do not wish to be subject to it.

[*]freedom of self-protection

Gun rights? Aren't Democrats fighting against this?

[pnwmdk]

Originally Posted by Utopian Slums

Conservatives often speak about wanting their "freedoms." Well, i too am a big advocate of "freedom" yet i consider myself liberal.

No, you're not for freedom. You're for the vices you want.

Although i haven't checked every thesaurus, i feel confident in saying that "free" is an antonym of "conservative."

Here are some of the freedoms that i cherish as a liberal:

I don't buy it for a moment.

[*]freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc

Not an issue. Period. People on the right are all for freedom. Until you disagree with them, and then they demand you do what they say - re: Hobby Lobby.

[*]freedom of speech

The left is VERY anti-free speech. I suspect you have some specific complaint here, but in generally, I doubt you're much for freedom of speech.

[*]freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)

That's not a woman's body you're killing. That's an unborn person.

[*]freedom to use birth control

Another totally false argument. Nobody's for stopping birth control.

[

*]freedom to engage in prostitution

Really? What about all those things you want regulated?

[*]freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa

You have always had this. The claim that recognition by the state is a matter of "right" is totally false.

[*]freedom of information

You're at odds with liberals, then.

[*]freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana

Unless it's unpasteurized milk, vitamins, large sugary drinks, ad infinitum.

[*]freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

You just violated the life part with wanting freedom to kill the unborn.

You don't like liberty at all.

And you've degenerated "the pursuit of happiness" into "leave my vices alone".

[*]freedom from oppression

I don't buy this at all. You're all for enslaving other people to supply your wish-lists.

[*]freedom of self-protection

At odds with liberals, again.

[*]And many more . . . .

Well, you named almost nothing above, so the suggestion there's many more seems not credible.

Most "conservatives" that i know believe in "the freedom of the second amendment," and then maybe half of the list above if lucky.

Perhaps you need to comprehend what freedom is.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, but sometimes i feel like "freedom" is code for "likes guns, may have partial paranoia and doesn't want to pay taxes." But this has nothing to do with ACTUAL FREEDOM.

It seems you define "actual freedom" as nothing more than your favorite vices.

How did ONE issue- pro-guns (and i'm not arguing for or against) become the ONLY issue of freedom.

It hasn't.

Again, i am not trying to insult anyone, i just would like to know from all "Conservatives who believe in Freedom," What are the freedoms you believe in besides guns?

If I thought you were serious, I'd answer. This reeks of opportunistic rhetoric.

How can you even feel comfortable exclaiming that you believe in freedoms when you don't believe in those key freedoms in the second list?

We do, it's you who doesn't.

[Ed from California]

OP was pwned.

[Utopian Slums]

Originally Posted by Ed from California

OP was pwned.

Lol. No actually, i am just really saddened that i did not get one intelligent answer. . . . Lots of anti-abortion rhetoric, plus paranoia and assumptions. But Not. One. Intelligent. Answer.

I was (am still am) seriously seeking an intelligent answer without insults, liberal bashing, abortion or gun debates.

Anyone?

[limetea]

Well I think first off you come in with sort of a closed minded perspective, which, as a liberal, may not be the best way to approach the question

I'm a liberal. I agree with you on which freedoms I prize, but I do NOT believe conservatives are anti-freedom. Conservatives just place high priority on freedoms that we don't place priority on (eg gun ownership.) Or in some cases, both sides are arguing for a freedom that by definition takes freedom from the other side. Take abortion for example, you are concerned with the freedom of the mother and they are concerned with the freedom of the fetus. Two competing interests in a zero-sum game means neither side is ever going to be completely happy.

Also when you apply conservatism to government, the only logical inference would actually be that the more conservative (ie constrained/limited) the government is, the more freedoms the populace would have. Surely you see that the bigger the government, the more laws, the less freedom? I'm sure you'd be cheering a law banning all guns, right? I mean you'd be protecting people by getting them off the street!!! Of course conservatives would say you were taking away their right to protect THEMSELVES and make decisions about their own autonomy. Well, that's how conservatives feel about abortion. They'd like to outlaw abortion to protect the millions of people who are murdered a year. Now you'd say they are taking away your right to make a decision about YOURSELF and make decisions about your own autonomy. See the correlation here? I think the problem we liberals have is not minding imposing laws as long as we like those laws Of course, conservatives have this problem too (see abortion) but I think since they tend to be a bit warier of government intervention it's not as endemic in conservative circles.

I think you'd do well to realize being conservative is in no way diametrically opposed to freedom as you seem to think it is. We all, basically care about the same thing (freedom) and just define it differently. Let's not get caught up in battles about who is right and wrong, and instead try to figure out how we can reach middle ground that's tenable to all parties. We all love our country, we should do what we can to unite it, you know?

[Utopian Slums]

To reframe the question (as people seem to be attacking the question itself) here it is:

Why do (most) conservatives talk of "loving their freedoms" when (most) are against so many "actual freedoms" except for, 1. the second amendment and (from what i'm interpreting) here, 2. the "freedom not pay for things for other people."*



(*This does not seem to be a "freedom to me" but i digress because i merely want the answer to my original question, if there is one.)

[limetea]

Originally Posted by Utopian Slums

Lol. No actually, i am just really saddened that i did not get one intelligent answer. . . . Lots of anti-abortion rhetoric, plus paranoia and assumptions. But Not. One. Intelligent. Answer.

I was (am still am) seriously seeking an intelligent answer without insults, liberal bashing, abortion or gun debates.

Anyone?

Come on, really? Yes you got some snarky answers (though I'd argue that with the tone of your initial post that may have been your intention) but you also got quite a few well thought out responses. Are you looking to understand conservatism, or just attack it? If you want to simply revel in the euphoria of your elitist, self-congratulatory bubble then I'm sorry I did take the time to respond to you in a thoughtful manner.