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=Ceist;33790212]Voting or campaigning against someone having the same rights as you do is not just having a 'different opinion'. It has a very direct and very large negative impact on their lives.
*sighs*. Now that all the emotional stuff is over, please spell out what rights under the Bill of Rights...that "gays" do not have?
Are they denied the right to vote, or to peacefully assemble and exercise their rights to freely practice their religious beliefs? Can they keep and bear arms just like the rest of us can? So, exactly what "rights" are homosexuals denied....other than those "rights" which are not really rights at all...but a newly created one which imposes an "obligation" on others to accommodate it?
Specifically speaking, as concerns this thread topic?: A persons has no constitutional right to demand that others accommodate your whims and agenda.
On the other hand? The business owner has everyright to not only express/apply their religious beliefs -- in however way they run their business and whatever services they provide -- when it comes to just which takes priority when it comes to the latter demanding the former do otherwise. In a nutshell, it also that which recognizes the simple fact that the final control of a business is with the owner, not the government...
Quote:
What impact does two women or two men who love each other getting a civil marriage license have on you? Does it make you feel a little uncomfortable?
Always THIS one, isn't it ...as in steering it off into an emotional ditch. It won't work for some of us...so let me answer it as I see it:
I don't give a shlit what two (or a dozen or of whatever mixture of whatever) do behind closed doors. Hell, they can bring in sheep far as I am concerned. Whether you think so or not? Most of us don't give a damn in the least what you gay people do, nor give it much of any thought at all in our everyday lives.
To elaborate? The blunt fact is? It just seems that some cannot make their case without ascribing negative aspersions on those who disagree with you. It is honestly pathetic and sad.
While we are a tolerant bunch, as in don't care what others do? We also (not saying I am speaking for all, in the least), embrace the simple the definition of "tolerance" means "acceptance within specified limits."
Unfortunately, today, it is not enough for the "gay rights" crowd to be satisfied with that simple compromise, but now demanded that their lifestyle and agenda be embraced and celebrated in the most "in your face" way.
And hey, if that makes me a hater or bigot or homophobe or whaterver to say so...then too dad-gum bad.....fine, I am a hater, bigot, and homophobe.
Does that "admission" make you feel all neat and smug and morally superior about yourself....LMAO
Exactly. As a matter of fact the bakery should be able to refuse any custom cake order they find offensive or inappropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb
I don't know, how would it be? Perhaps because you hate freckles...? Do you?
But oh gawd, really dumb analogy.
No one is "chucking out" homosexuals from the bakery. They have every right in the world to enter it; to order a cup-cake or cookies or candy or a full wedding cake, if they want.
I know this might be hard for you to use simple common-sense, salted with a bit of appreciation of what freedom actually means...but ALL the owners did was refuse to adorn the cake with a "same-sex" couple model. Nothing more than that.
All this amounts to is the "Gay Lobby" intentionally picking a stupid-a$$ed fight for no reason other than to advance their own agenda. What a bunch of cry-babies...
But ok, so why couldn't this "couple" just find another bakery? Did they not exist? You know the answer as well as I do....
*sighs*. Now that all the emotional stuff is over, please spell out what rights under the Bill of Rights...that "gays" do not have?
Are they denied the right to vote, or to peacefully assemble and exercise their rights to freely practice their religious beliefs? Can they keep and bear arms just like the rest of us can? So, exactly what "rights" are homosexuals denied....other than those "rights" which are not really rights at all...but a newly created one which imposes an "obligation" on others to accommodate it?
Specifically speaking, as concerns this thread topic?: A persons has no constitutional right to demand that others accommodate your whims and agenda.
On the other hand? The business owner has everyright to not only express/apply their religious beliefs -- in however way they run their business and whatever services they provide -- when it comes to just which takes priority when it comes to the latter demanding the former do otherwise. In a nutshell, it also that which recognizes the simple fact that the final control of a business is with the owner, not the government...
Always THIS one, isn't it ...as in steering it off into an emotional ditch. It won't work for some of us...so let me answer it as I see it:
I don't give a shlit what two (or a dozen or of whatever mixture of whatever) do behind closed doors. Hell, they can bring in sheep far as I am concerned. Whether you think so or not? Most of us don't give a damn in the least what you gay people do, nor give it much of any thought at all in our everyday lives.
To elaborate? The blunt fact is? It just seems that some cannot make their case without ascribing negative aspersions on those who disagree with you. It is honestly pathetic and sad.
While we are a tolerant bunch, as in don't care what others do? We also (not saying I am speaking for all, in the least), embrace the simple the definition of "tolerance" means "acceptance within specified limits."
Unfortunately, today, it is not enough for the "gay rights" crowd to be satisfied with that simple compromise, but now demanded that their lifestyle and agenda be embraced and celebrated in the most "in your face" way.
And hey, if that makes me a hater or bigot or homophobe or whaterver to say so...then too dad-gum bad.....fine, I am a hater, bigot, and homophobe.
Does that "admission" make you feel all neat and smug and morally superior about yourself....LMAO
The shoe fits and you wear it well.
The bakers religion does not give him/her a license to discriminate. He/she can believe in what ever they want to believe in, but they cannot discriminate against their customers using their religion, that holds true for catholics, jews, muslims what ever. His/her beliefs end at their nose, when they impose their beliefs upon others, they are forcing their beliefs down others throats.
No, they never even got to the cake decorations before the baker told the couple that they could not buy a wedding cake in that shop.
Maybe you should review the cases before going on about "nothing more than that".
No, YOU are the one who needs to get your facts straight. To wit:
The homosexual "couple" were not denied entry at all. That is just stupid to say otherwise...and also destroys any possible connection to the old "Jim Crow" laws.
Now then? I will concede that you are correct -- or sorts in an extremely narrow rubric -- in that the owners said they could "not buy a cake".
Uhhhh, but that only tells a part of the story. The "couple" were free to enter and to order or buy anything at all within the shop. Am I wrong on that?
Where the line was drawn was that the owners refused to make a custom-made cake -- much less atoping it with a same-sex model -- that violated their own moral/religious values.
Face it, all this activist "couple" did, was go in for the sole purpose of picking a fight and find an excuse to file a lawsuit. What a bunch of whiney crybabies.
Anyway, I am going to sign off for the night and re-join tomorrow, or whatever. But just want to leave it with an answer to what was asked earlier by someone as to how "gay marriage" affects me, personally?
Welllll, the answer to that is that all thru history marriage has been defined as between a man and woman; from the most primitive to most advanced societies. If nothing else, it is because only a man and woman can reproduce, and it provides very needed balance in that realm. Never did nature say one thing and wisdom another....
But to go back to answer? It doesn't really affect all that much...on a superficially level. It DOES affect on how it destroys -- on a fundamental level -- one of the many interwoven standards of what holds any given society together. And now it will affect my grandchildren and the future of this country.
That is, a shared sense of social morays and values is the only thing that holds a society together. Moral anarchy is a recipe for disaster...
But ok...time for a bacon-sandwich! LOL Have a good evening, everyone!
*sighs*. Now that all the emotional stuff is over, please spell out what rights under the Bill of Rights...that "gays" do not have?
Are they denied the right to vote, or to peacefully assemble and exercise their rights to freely practice their religious beliefs? Can they keep and bear arms just like the rest of us can? So, exactly what "rights" are homosexuals denied....other than those "rights" which are not really rights at all...but a newly created one which imposes an "obligation" on others to accommodate it?
Specifically speaking, as concerns this thread topic?: A persons has no constitutional right to demand that others accommodate your whims and agenda.
On the other hand? The business owner has everyright to not only express/apply their religious beliefs -- in however way they run their business and whatever services they provide -- when it comes to just which takes priority when it comes to the latter demanding the former do otherwise. In a nutshell, it also that which recognizes the simple fact that the final control of a business is with the owner, not the government...
Always THIS one, isn't it ...as in steering it off into an emotional ditch. It won't work for some of us...so let me answer it as I see it:
I don't give a shlit what two (or a dozen or of whatever mixture of whatever) do behind closed doors. Hell, they can bring in sheep far as I am concerned. Whether you think so or not? Most of us don't give a damn in the least what you gay people do, nor give it much of any thought at all in our everyday lives.
To elaborate? The blunt fact is? It just seems that some cannot make their case without ascribing negative aspersions on those who disagree with you. It is honestly pathetic and sad.
While we are a tolerant bunch, as in don't care what others do? We also (not saying I am speaking for all, in the least), embrace the simple the definition of "tolerance" means "acceptance within specified limits."
Unfortunately, today, it is not enough for the "gay rights" crowd to be satisfied with that simple compromise, but now demanded that their lifestyle and agenda be embraced and celebrated in the most "in your face" way.
And hey, if that makes me a hater or bigot or homophobe or whaterver to say so...then too dad-gum bad.....fine, I am a hater, bigot, and homophobe.
Does that "admission" make you feel all neat and smug and morally superior about yourself....LMAO
If you 'disagree' with gay and lesbian people having equal protection under the law (14th amendment) what are your justifications?
Try to keep the emotional irrational rants like those in your previous posts to a minimum... okay?
The bakers religion does not give him/her a license to discriminate. He/she can believe in what ever they want to believe in, but they cannot discriminate against their customers using their religion, that holds true for catholics, jews, muslims what ever. His/her beliefs end at their nose, when they impose their beliefs upon others, they are forcing their beliefs down others throats.
=TheDragonslayer;33800308]The shoe fits and you wear it well.
The bakers religion does not give him/her a license to discriminate. He/she can believe in what ever they want to believe in, but they cannot discriminate against their customers using their religion, that holds true for catholics, jews, muslims what ever. His/her beliefs end at their nose, when they impose their beliefs upon others, they are forcing their beliefs down others throats.
I caught this one right before logging out, so just want to reply quickly.
What you are really saying is that everyone is free to believe what they want....but not to actually be allowed to actually practice the said beliefs if it comes up against a special-interests' groups notion of what constitutes "discrimination", right?
How does anyone "impose" their beliefs on someone else if there is always a choice to go elsewhere to do your business? This makes no sense whatsoever.
Oh lord...almost laughable and quite telling...that no one on this thread who takes an opposite position as you has the slightest problem with also supporting that a bakery owned by a gay-couple should have every right to do the same as did the business in question?
What or why should we care? What is the problem with that??? Just go down the block or whatever...
C'mon, face it. Most of the ilk you claim to speak for are a bunch of big babies who think the world owes them something.
No it is not. The prostitute is in control of her/his body. The baker just bakes a cake, the same cake he bakes for anyone. He is not involved in the eating of it, just the making of it. Big difference between ones body and a product. Stupid thread started by another gay hater. All of them lately are by gay haters who obsess about gay people, sounds like you have a big problem.
I caught this one right before logging out, so just want to reply quickly.
What you are really saying is that everyone is free to believe what they want....but not to actually be allowed to actually practice the said beliefs if it comes up against a special-interests' groups notion of what constitutes "discrimination", right?
How does anyone "impose" their beliefs on someone else if there is always a choice to go elsewhere to do your business? This makes no sense whatsoever.
Oh lord...almost laughable and quite telling...that no one on this thread who takes an opposite position as you has the slightest problem with also supporting that a bakery owned by a gay-couple should have every right to do the same as did the business in question?
What or why should we care? What is the problem with that??? Just go down the block or whatever...
C'mon, face it. Most of the ilk you claim to speak for are a bunch of big babies who think the world owes them something.
Have a good evening...!
I do not think a business owned by a gay person should have the right to discriminate against straight people. Why don't you face it that you just want to use your bible to discriminate, when there are laws against discriminating. It is egotistical of those pushing their bible on others through their business practices. Keep religion out of business with the public. Why should someone have to go to another business for service just because one wants to use their religion to deny them service. It is not allowed to do that to black people, Asians or any other minority, why is it allowed to happen to gay people? That is why we have a fight for our civil rights, because they are being denied us, we deserve the same full equal access to accommodations as anyone else and just because we are gay should not be a factor. Your beliefs are yours alone, they are not everyones and do not belong in business practice, nor are they needed to practice business.
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It won't work for some of us...so let me answer it as I see it: 
really dumb analogy.
