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Anyone can marry as there is no requirement or stipulation of any kind that two of the same sex be homosexual for “marriage” even though you would like it to be that way.
That is very true, technically two straight same sex people can get a gay marriage if they want. Not sure what your point is with this.
If I were a baker who made wedding cakes and didn't care who I made the cakes for, I'd be making it well known that I'll bake a cake for ANY wedding Good marketing, more money in my pocket.
For the bakers who don't want to make cakes for SS weddings, move your bakery onto church property. Then you don't have to serve the general public and are free to discriminate.
Anyone can marry as there is no requirement or stipulation of any kind that two of the same sex be homosexual for “marriage” even though you would like it to be that way.
Actually in some situations there is. In Canada for example, someone who is marrying a foreigner of the same sex, must prove it is not a marriage of convenience. So it would be difficult for two straight people of the same sex to get married in that situation.
To suggest that two straight people of the same sex would want to get married is a red herring and silly.
For the bakers who don't want to make cakes for SS weddings, move your bakery onto church property. Then you don't have to serve the general public and are free to discriminate.
You probably wouldn't stay in business very long if you only served members of the church.
You continually ignore the fact that this baker was making (creating) a custom productfor his clients, for which their is doubtless a considerable amount of labor.
And because of this, yes, he does "materially participate" (in the legal sense) in that wedding. If he (as many Christian business owners do) believes he should bring glory to God in all he does, it is understandable that he would have a problem providing his services for a homosexual "couple," for a "wedding" which he believes is an affront to God, and he is justified in his refusal to do so if he believes that doing so would be forcing him to bring dishonor to God.
Any law forcing him to do so is an unjust law, and violates his religious liberty.
So, according to you, Christians should not open businesses?
An affront to God? Women wearing pants is an affront to God. Tattoos are an affront to God. Women who aren't virgins getting married is an affront to God. Divorce is an affront to God. People who read horoscopes are an affront to God. Everything is a bloody affront to God.
However, the bakers just want to turn away the gays. Either live your life "bringing glory to God" or don't, but don't be a hypocrite about it.
These people are just hiding behind their bibles to cloak their bigotry towards homosexuals.
What if you have no hatred or resentment, but don't wish to provide services to something that offends you?
Like a photographer asked to photograph sex?
Is he or she "sex-phobic" if they won't? And they have to, or they can't be photographers?
Where does the line get drawn between involuntary servitude and the emotional tantrums of some group?
If a photographer doesn't offer the service of photographing sex, nobody can force him to.
But if a photographer does and refuses said service to somebody because of gender, race, or even handicap, that's against the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
It was not a christian bakery, the baker was using his religious beliefs to discriminate. One cannot use their religion as an excuse to discriminate when it comes to a public business. Why do some christians want to use their religion to hate people, WHY?
Because they have less than average intelligence.
And they like being flagrant law-breakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenZephyr
Going back to the question, should a Muslim or Jewish caterer be forced to provide food and services for a pig roast or pork barbeque? Should a devout Muslim photographer be forced to photograph a gay wedding? Should a halal bakery be forced to serve a wedding cake for a gay wedding?
If they make and offer sandwiches, they can't discriminate to whom they sell to. A halal bakery that is in the business of wedding cakes cannot discriminate against their clients.
tl;dr: If a person is so arsed that they feel their religious beliefs entail discriminating against clientele in an unlawful manner, then that person should not be in business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenZephyr
Take the Christian out of it, Christians are easy targets, that's why their business are always targeted by these activists, they know that Christians won't fight back, replace with fundamentalist Muslim and let the cards fall. Funny, I've never seen a halal bakery taken to court for denying serving a gay wedding due to beliefs, plenty of these bakeries exist, just none have been targeted.
Wonder why?
Because said halal bakeries aren't so pigheadedly dumb?
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
An affront to God? Women wearing pants is an affront to God. Tattoos are an affront to God. Women who aren't virgins getting married is an affront to God. Divorce is an affront to God. People who read horoscopes are an affront to God. Everything is a bloody affront to God.
However, the bakers just want to turn away the gays. Either live your life "bringing glory to God" or don't, but don't be a hypocrite about it.
These people are just hiding behind their bibles to cloak their bigotry towards homosexuals.
When these same bakers refuse to bake baby shower cakes for unwed mothers, refuse to bake cakes for divorced people, refuse to bake cakes for Super Bowl parties, refuse to bake cakes for psychics and mediums, refuse to bake cakes for non-virgins, refuse to bake cakes for liars, refuse to bake cakes for tattooed people, then we'll talk. Until then, the miasma of hypocrisy surrounding this fake piety is suffocating.
Last edited by weltschmerz; 03-06-2014 at 01:14 PM..
The baker refused on the basis of his religion to participate and be party to a same-sex “marriage”. It does not mean that they are necessarily homosexual as two straight males or straight females could also “marry” just to receive the benefits unless of course you seek to mandate that “marriage” between two of the same sex be reserved only for homosexuals. The religious baker refused to participate in the so-called “marriage” of two same sex participants regardless of whether they are homosexual or heterosexual. This is not homosexual discrimination.
Well, legally for same sex couples, only a civil marriage license counts with the federal government, but for straight couples that have civil unions, those will be recognized along with their civil marriages. It is the feds that made the decision as to what to call legal and domestic partnerships and civil unions for gays will not be recognized. Why would two straight men or women marry when they could marry an opposite sex person for convenience without all of societies bull? The bakers business is not run by his beliefs, nor his religion and it takes neither his belief or religion to bake a cake, just because he is Christian does not make his bakery a Christian bakery. Why are some Christians in an uproar over providing equal service to gays? I do not see Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Budhists or Hindus getting their underwear all bunched up over it. It appears to be some Christians that want to be able to use their beliefs to discriminate against gays specifically. They cannot hide it, they wear it like a badge.
Well, legally for same sex couples, only a civil marriage license counts with the federal government, but for straight couples that have civil unions, those will be recognized along with their civil marriages. It is the feds that made the decision as to what to call legal and domestic partnerships and civil unions for gays will not be recognized. Why would two straight men or women marry when they could marry an opposite sex person for convenience without all of societies bull? The bakers business is not run by his beliefs, nor his religion and it takes neither his belief or religion to bake a cake, just because he is Christian does not make his bakery a Christian bakery. Why are some Christians in an uproar over providing equal service to gays? I do not see Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Budhists or Hindus getting their underwear all bunched up over it. It appears to be some Christians that want to be able to use their beliefs to discriminate against gays specifically. They cannot hide it, they wear it like a badge.
They do wear it like a badge and seem perplexed when they get slammed down. Funny to watch them sputter and spin.
When these same bakers refuse to bake baby shower cakes for unwed mothers, refuse to bake cakes for divorced people, refuse to bake cakes for Super Bowl parties, refuse to bake cakes for psychics and mediums, refuse to bake cakes for non-virgins, refuse to bake cakes for liars, refuse to bake cakes for tattooed people, then we'll talk. Until then, the miasma of hypocrisy surrounding this fake piety is suffocating.
33 pages later and no one has touched this one yet. Why is a baker, for example, only targeting same-sex couples and not other Biblical "no-nos." Why? Let's also keep in mind that the finest of Christians, much like the ones thumping about religious freedom on here, were also using Bible verses to cite why interracial marriage should have never been allowed "back in the day." Oh if we all had keyboards back in the days of that! A person can INTERPRET a Bible verse and then go against anything he or she wants and call his or herself a Christian. Ahh, gotta love it...
I mean, Zsa Zsa Gabor has been married nine times, but thank "God" they were all to men and not other women! I bet each and every one of her marriages were sacred and "cool" because "the gays" weren't involved. If I were a Christian baker, I'd bake her a cake for #10 if she lives to see it, because I'm sure each and every one of those divorces is much less of a "sin" than those darn homochechuals! *rabble rabble rabble*
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Good marketing, more money in my pocket.
