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Christianity is the reason for the abolition of slavery worldwide? That's complete bullsh*t and you know it. In fact, if that were so irrefutably true, you would've had no reason to revert back to the Islamic comparisons in the first place.
Christianity may not have been the sole influence ending slavery but it certainly was one of the most significant influences.
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Not to mention that once again, one would have to ignore the fact that there was widespread slavery in Christian nations to begin with. How do you explain that? Did the Christian doctrine change all of a sudden in regard to slavery and cruel subjugation of one's fellow man?
After the fall of Rome the enslavement of other dramatically declined in Europe. The Circuses slaughtering thousands of animals for entertainment ended. And Gladiatorial games ended.
Not until the founding of the City of Rio de Janeiro was there urban slave population on par with the ancient pagan city of Rome.
Throughout the Spanish Americas, however, it was the Jewish conversos (baptized ethnic Jews into the Catholic faith) that primarily ran the slave trade. That means little or more depending on what one is looking for historically with respects to the Spanish colonized Americas and slavery.
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What's the Catholic church's excuse as to their behavior RIGHT HERE in the Americas, which was probably even MORE brutal than the African slave trade.
The Catholic Church--as in the religious orders--does not have a history in the Americas "MORE brutal than the African slave trade."
Some orders and some individuals within those orders were cruel and probably down right evil. The Franciscans for some reason seemed to have had a number of uncharitable cases that arose.
The Jesuit order had a rather remarkable and glorious history in the Americas from the territories of Canada and the U.S. to South America. Their treatment of the Amerindians in the 1700s was ahead of the 1960s United States. The Amerindians from Canada to South America almost always respected and loved the Amerindians.
What you may be confusing is the Spanish laity in the Americas with the "Catholic Church." Yes, the laity make up part of the Church but if by "Catholic Church" you mean the institutional hierarchy and the clergy in both the Americas and Rome then no... the Spanish laity were not representative of "the Catholic Church."
The Spanish in Mexico and South America as well, were not even representative of the French (Catholic) traders found throughout North America like in the territories of what is now Wisconsin.
The Papal States never sent military forces into the Americas or colonized the Americas. Neither did the Holy Roman Empire. The Spanish did self proclaim themselves the New Israelites responsible for spreading Catholicism like the modern America views themselves the same way with respects to spreading democracy across the earth.
The Jesuits I want to emphasize, have a history in the Americas extraordinarily remarkable. And in the a very good and Christ-like way.
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Or how about the Catholic church's role in looking the other way during the Holocaust when they knew that millions of people were being slaughtered? I won't even bother with their direct role in their involvement with Catholic militias in Croatia during the Bosnian conflict.
LOL...gimme a break.
The Catholic Church did not "look the other way." The Church in fact was responsible for saving hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jewish lives.
You are getting your information from a left-wing conspiracy started by the KGB to defame the Catholic Church. A former Romanian spy has already come out to testify that the Deputy theatrical play was KGB backed.
During and after the WWII all leading Jews from Albert Einstein to Golda Meir all praised both the Pope and the Catholic Church for its role in saving Jews. In fact, they viewed the Catholic Church as the lone voice in the whole planet earth that raised objection to the Nazis.
When the Nazi's invaded Rome the Pope himself gave refuge to fleeing Jews inside the walls of the Vatican. His own personal quarters was turned into a maternity ward for Jews. The Vatican was so packed with Jews they were sleeping next to the statues.
The convents were ordered to open their doors to the Jews. They hid Jews in the convents, sometimes dressing them as nuns.
From Nazi controlled parts of Europe the Catholic Church was running an underground rail road of Jews into parts of the Americas like the dictator run Dominican Republic.
The Vatican was also assisting escaped American POWs return to the U.S.
Living Jews still exist that were saved in Rome itself by the Pope and Catholic nuns. It just makes less interesting news story for a left wing media in love with Satan and intent on spreading lies.
From the historical evidence, a Jewish-American man raised in the 60's as a child to hate Pope Pius XII, after studying all the historical evidence, has now become one of the former Pope's greatest champions. Other Jews support the Pope and Church to saying leftist haters of God are using the Jewish tragedy to discredit the Church and by discrediting the Church all religion.
This little tough nun is an educated woman (though not a formally trained historian) and a scholar in her own right. You'll see the Italian Embassy in Washington D.D. even has her speaking as the world's leading authority on some guy. But in the first video she speaks about Pope Pius XII.
In some cases the Amerindians were treated better by white Christians than the white Christians treatment of other white Christians.
Many Amerindian nations/tribes were very cruel and brutal towards one another. Some like the Pueblos were extraordinarily peaceful.
Nonetheless, there were plenty of cruel and even evil Christians.
The Indians in reality were not like the popular noble savage image of them today. They ran the gamut from saints to slayers just like everyone else. You just don't hear about the bad ones. Just like it is racist to mention problems in the black community. Some of the Indians had slaves, brutally tortured people, made their living by thieving, etc.
The Indians in reality were not like the popular noble savage image of them today. They ran the gamut from saints to slayers just like everyone else. You just don't hear about the bad ones. Just like it is racist to mention problems in the black community. Some of the Indians had slaves, brutally tortured people, made their living by thieving, etc.
Why is it so important to bring up intra Indian cruelty? What does that prove? That Indians deserved their treatment at the hands of the Europeans?
You asked and I answered go back to post #82......if your considered.
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No true Scotsman, eh?
We see you know little about those who are Christians and those who think their Christian. Yes, there are those who use God as their way to sinful doing, what do you want us to do about it? Non- believers have their perverts and screwed up people also.....
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LMAO...if i were you, I wouldn't be worrying too much about getting into heaven. Seriously.
Who says we're worried......I know what it takes to go to Heaven.
Wars with Islam is part of your President's doing not mine.
You asked and I answered go back to post #82......if your considered.
We see you know little about those who are Christians and those who think their Christian. Yes, there are those who use God as their way to sinful doing, what do you want us to do about it? Non- believers have their perverts and screwed up people also.....
Who says we're worried......I know what it takes to go to Heaven.
Wars with Islam is part of your President's doing not mine.
Oh yeah...you know what it takes, huh?
Lemme guess...you start by joining the Republican Party, right? LMAO...
The Indians in reality were not like the popular noble savage image of them today. They ran the gamut from saints to slayers just like everyone else. You just don't hear about the bad ones. Just like it is racist to mention problems in the black community. Some of the Indians had slaves, brutally tortured people, made their living by thieving, etc.
Yeah, and is was not just individuals, but it was whole Amerindian nations (or tribes if one prefers that term). Some of them fought near-genocidal among one another. The plains and Northwest Amerindian nations seem to have been worse, in general, than the Amerindian nations on the East Coast.
Their cruelty was cultural. When some of these tribes conducted raids on another they thought nothing of torture the women, raping them, and torturing the men an the women's infants (like roasting the infants) in front of them. All the while dancing merrily around the screaming people being tortured. Then they'd take selected children with them to be raised as members of their tribe.
But some Amerindian nations were very peaceful. The Amerindians nations were not one monolithic group.
Some of the colonial European's tactics would be shocking to our sensibilities today too. Like decapitating corpses and putting their heads up on pikes sticking out the ground as warning to others (in this case Amerindians). But overall the Amerindians--at least among the more war-like nations--had a far more savage form of warfare. Among these people, out in Oregon Country (expansive territory before it became incorporated into the United States), the Jesuits would go out in a handful of numbers, living as the Amerindians, educating them, providing them gunpowder, food, and of course teaching them the Christian faith. White men would complain that the Jesuits provided the Amerindians with more gunpowder and more meat and food than they the white men had.
But more impressive is at least one Jesuit that traveled alone deep into Oregon country to live among a very war-like Amerindian nation. Can you imagine the courage? These were people that skinned strangers alive! And mail to several months to arrive if it arrived successfully at all.
But even in those nations that fought savagely the Amerindians within their own tribes could show love and tenderness to one another. It was a very strange thing. With all our courts and police forces and telephones with 9-11 not to mention paramedics in vans... we really are very disassociated with a much earlier wild America. With such a lack of law enforcement around peoples ethics or morals and personal sense of charity seems to have been what drove most order and peace of neighbor.
While the archetype of the Noble Savage is the prevailing image we have today of the Amerindians, it did not start today. I remember reading a book on Brazil's young emperor and the book briefly described the popular style of that time in Brazil that glorified the Noble Savage. In fact, sometimes the Amerindian in the image was supposed to represent the new Brazilian nation. Often times a bare breast Tupi Amerindian woman.
Again, the Informal Fallacy argument simply doesn't work in this case
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry Many people, have a lemming mentality and cannot think for themselves or succumb to peer pressure.
Religion has many good things, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Unfortunately most do not hold leaders to their word. No different than those who blindly support their party over policy.
Ghandi had it right, I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are un Christ like.
Again, you missed the mark completely. You made a silly statement, just because YOU said so doesn't hold water.
Let me dumb it down for you. A good policy run by a bad person doesn't make the concept bad.
Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 07-31-2013 at 01:42 AM..
Really? You don't understand the simple point I made and what it pertains too?
Civil disobedience, ever hear of it? It was used to overturn Jim Crow. (You probably think it was government and the Civil Rights Act that did the trick.) Guess who else used it? You probably don't know so I'll tell you. It was Ghandi.
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Originally Posted by Supine
Ghandi didn't like black people. At least he certainly didn't in his younger years when he lived in South Africa. He used to refer to South African blacks (under apartheid) using a racial slur for them.
Show me all the times Ghandi used force and coercion to get people to act like he wanted them too.
When Nat Turner, a Bible scholar, went on his killing spree of 60 white people, in 1830, trying hard to start an insurrection in Virginia, he was propelled by 2 Bible passages which he never heard of by way of a Christian minister in a church:
Deuteronomy 24:7----If a man be found stealing any of his brethren, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him, then that thief shall die, and thou shalt put evil away from among you.
Exodus 21:16---And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Sort of makes you laugh! They did everything to shield the slaves from reading the Declaration of Independence (we're all created equally), making sure their only education was religious education, and yet, they deemed the Bible the safest of reading.
Oops! Someone screwed up there!
Religion has always worked hand-in-hand with government and corporations/plantations. Always has, always will!
Religion provides a pathway for sinners to reach God.
Being Christian or any other religion doesn't automatically make you perfect. In fact it is the imperfection that we have in common. We are a work in progress.
Christianity promotes forgiveness and mercy which ahs mended many fences and fostered post world war cooperation. Unlike Islam which maintains its wars as if its holy leader was Al Sharpton.
All cultures of all religions practised slavery.
You might ask why Dems supported Jim Crow and slavery as well as elected, repeatedly, a KKK leader who they honored and respected.
Oh, by the way, slavery is long gone in the USA if you didn't notice. Also Christians are not lamenting the loss.
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They did everything to shield the slaves from reading the Declaration of Independence (we're all created equally), making sure their only education was religious education, and yet, they deemed the Bible the safest of reading.
