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If somebody who had molested a child a couple of times (let's say the details are unimportant but it did not involve lasting physical injuries), after doing his time (and surviving in jail), sincerely repented and swore that he would never do it again, do you think you could personally ever forgive him? And do you think he deserves forgiveness? Assuming you could believe he would never do it. I guess they're slighted related questions.
While I'm as shocked by child abuse as anybody, the way in which they are beyond forgiveness and are hated, more than mass murderers or serial killers, is slightly disturbing. Actually what I'm more concerned about is the witch-hunt/hysterical attitude. Many people guilty of lesser crimes (i.e. consensual sex with say a 14 year old minor, or even something as minor as accidentally exposing yourself to children without intent) are often given the same tag. I don't have children so I can't say what I'd do if it happened to one of my own children, but I'd like to think if they have truly turned away there's a place for forgiveness for everybody.
I understand there are countless people who've been abused or have a love one who has been, and I think it's totally understandable to never be able to forgive. I'm not saying you're a lesser person. Nor, I think, should those who do forgive be made to feel guilty or that they condone or tolerate pedophilia.
I guess what it comes down to is: should they be shot/locked away forever, even if it was just one time, or should they be 'rehabilitated?' I mean like a murderer or rapist you never REALLY know, which is the disturbing part, but then again there are pedophiles lurking around who haven't committed an offence yet. I guess even if it's a 'sexual orientation' it's not one that society can tolerate, so maybe they could be given a chemical that removes their desire or castrated?
I'm delighted to read this post. I think there are those in the recovery-form-sexual-abuse community who would be quite angry at you for posting it. As if the fact that you chose these relationships and they didn't produce trauma necessarily invalidates the experiences of those of the same age who were abused. I wish more women like you would speak up and move society to ask underage girls who have had sexual activity what *their* opinion was of whether they were abused or not, and believe them if they say they weren't.
Legally, I don't favor lowering the age of consent below 16, however, and the reason has to do with standard of proof. An adult woman who was raped has to prove that she didn't consent, which is often difficult. A young teen who was raped shouldn't have to prove it. If she says she was (and there is proof that sexual activity took place) then she was. In fact, if she was coerced or even just confused and regrets it, the man is guilty too. My unwavering advice to men is that sexual activity with an underage girl is always a very bad idea.
You were sexually mature, though, so it isn't a case that has anything to do with true pedophilia (attraction to prepubescents).
How would you feel about your youth if the older boys/men you were involved with had all refused to have sex with you until you were of age? Would you have managed somehow?
I'm sure I would have managed if they all refused, I hated that that one guy refused though, I was just crazy about him, I made it very hard for him to refuse. I think I would have been miserable if consent were 18 in my state, it was 16, so I only had to wait a year. I don't necessarily feel it's better that he refused, I was already sexually active anyway. I was a teen in the 80's people weren't as paranoid about "sexual abuse" issues back then. Guys dating younger girls was more normal than it is now.
I absolutely agree the girl should be asked how she felt about the experience, she may have been the pursuer, or even lied about her age.
When I was 16 I had a short relationship with a guy who was in his mid-late twenties, it was certainly not molestation, I sought him out and to this day feel fine about being with him, in fact in many ways I was more mature than he was. BTW, at the time I could easily pass for over 18, he was not a pedophile, I looked like a woman. His girlfriend, (yes, I knew about her) told my parents, who quickly put a stop to it, and since I was starting to feel over him anyway, I didn't really mind, and didn't try to see him again.
Parents might be surprised how many 13 year old girls seek out 18-early twenties men and being with them is 100% their choice, but the parent would always assume the guy was responsible, and their precious angel must have been abused, or manipulated. Girls do mature a lot faster than guys, many 13-14 year old girls can consent to sex they have no regrets about. When I was about 15, I had a major crush on a 20 year old who lived in my neighborhood. I did everything I could to get him, I knew he was attracted, but he refused to date me until I was over 16 (legal in my state), and we ended up having a nice little relationship that I eventually ended, I actually crushed him, he fell in love with me and pursued me until I left home after high school. I started having sex at 13 and it was always my choice, I often pursued guys who were a little older, no daddy issues or anything, I just felt more mature than guys my age at that time, by 20 I started being with guys my own age. I was never raped or molested, I had great parents who loved me, I was just ready.
I do wonder if my parents had forced me to see a psychologist, would I have been somehow convinced I was abused? I don't think so because I'm pretty strong willed, but I bet a lot of girls could be convinced, and go on with their lives feeling like victims when in reality they made that choice and shouldn't have felt bad about it.
BTW, I do agree people in positions of authority over minors should be the exception to under 18 consent, which it is in many states.
We'll have to agree to disagree over the 13 yr old. I remember being 13 quite clearly, and yes, there lots of older guys I wanted and would've "jumped on", if given the chance...Thankfully, those older guys/men didn't see things the same way. they were the older one, or the adult and KNEW better
Age 15-16 and up is a whole other story
When I was 17, I started dating a 21 yr old. I didn't and don't see anything inappropriate in that
In many cases that not really pedophilia, the girl may look older and be the pursuer. That's just the law, it isn't necessarily right. The girl could be 14, the guy 19, that could be a completely normal relationship. I do think the guy should wait until it's legal, but many 19-20 year old "men" are very immature, I don't think their lives should be ruined when the girl was a willing partner.
We'll have to agree to disagree over the 13 yr old. I remember being 13 quite clearly, and yes, there lots of older guys I wanted and would've "jumped on", if given the chance...Thankfully, those older guys/men didn't see things the same way. they were the older one, or the adult and KNEW better
Age 15-16 and up is a whole other story
When I was 17, I started dating a 21 yr old. I didn't and don't see anything inappropriate in that
At 13, you're still a kid, sorry
We can disagree, but I feel fine about it, it was my choice. I was not interested in kid things at that time, people mature at different rates, I believe I was almost 14 at the time, but I knew I was ready and regret nothing.
We can disagree, but I feel fine about it, it was my choice. I was not interested in kid things at that time, people mature at different rates, I believe I was almost 14 at the time, but I knew I was ready and regret nothing.
hmmmm yes, and were you ready for any repercussions if you had become pregnant, or contracted an STD?
What about your parents? how would they have dealt?
Part of being mature is to take into account how your actions affect others
Teenagers by nature, are inherently self focused
hmmmm yes, and were you ready for any repercussions if you had become pregnant, or contracted an STD?
What about your parents? how would they have dealt?
Part of being mature is to take into account how your actions affect others
Teenagers by nature, are inherently self focused
No, but is a 15 year old any more ready to get pregnant, or get an STD? No one should have sex until after high school, or possibly college if that is the criteria, but lets face it we are humans and we things in the moment that may have repercussions. The point is there was no emotional repercussions for me personally. I'm certainly not saying every 13 yr. old should have sex, most probably shouldn't.
No, but is a 15 year old any more ready to get pregnant, or get an STD? No one should have sex until after high school, or possibly college if that is the criteria, but lets face it we are humans and we things in the moment that may have repercussions. The point is there was no emotional repercussions for me personally. I'm certainly not saying every 13 yr. old should have sex, most probably shouldn't.
Well, yes, a 15 year old, if pregnant is close (at least in most states) to being able to drive, hold at least some sort of a job and can be emancipated (in my state it varies county to county on age) but is generally 15-16 yrs old. So, by the time she would have that baby...she could at least in theory play a major role in it's care.
I understand you may not have had emotional repercussions, and I agree that in many cases, the supposed "repercussions" are overstated.
In the case I mentioned earlier, (our personal case) the 13 yr old was NOT mature enough...and was easily led, by the 23 yr old and by her Aunt and Uncle who mislead, and used her.
When charges were pressed against the 23 yr old, it was because her parents really had no choice, once they found out what was going on...keeping them apart them wasn't enough, if children services got wind of it, the parents could've been charged.
Does age matter to most pedophiles, or is it more how the girl looks?
I'm not aware of pedophiles being attracted to a number, for instance suddenly finding a girl more attractive if they discover she's 8 instead of 10. It surely has to do with how she looks, but also sometimes how mature she acts.
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If she is developing does the attraction wane?
Very few if any research studies have been done on representative samples of pedophiles, since many (most?) of us stay silent and hidden. A great many studies have been done on sex abusers, and the scientists can separate out the pedophile offenders from the other offenders to some extent. I honestly don't know what they find. I suppose surveys could be taken of sex abuse survivors where the abuse went on for many years undisturbed by outside forces. Did the guy break it off as the girl grew up, or not? I suppose someone could count the stories. Whatever is found would apply only to offenders anyway.
A pedophile's attraction typically wanes as a girl develops, but that doesn't mean it ends. I do know that 80% or so of pedophiles are not exclusive, meaning they have significant attraction to grown women (or men) as well as children. But consider that as adult women grow older, 'ordinary' men's physical attraction to them also typically wanes. Most men have come to love the woman as person and stay with her. Obviously a significant minority don't. If I personally entertain a fantasy of an ongoing relationship with a prepubescent, continuing the fantasy to abandoning her as she matures would feel very shameful. This is all hypothetical, remember.
The idea of an exclusive pedophile abandoning a girl as she grows up is certainly an idea I've heard several times, but I don't know anything reliable.
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Why would a man who is attracted to older women have sex with a pre-pubescent?
Lots of men (up to 50 percent in some studies) show some degree of sexual attraction to prepubescents if you measure their most primitive responses. Most of them are unaware of it, suppress it, or ignore it and concentrate on adult women, which is as it should be. Very much as it should be! But in a situation where they have no woman partner and a girl is available, some will act. A classic and tragic case is the stepfather in cases where the sexual relationship with the girl's mother is not going well. Many men are not content with a single partner and are always looking for more. We are familiar with the type when it involves adults, but it can also involve children.
Keep in mind too that a great deal of sexual activity with prepubescent girls does not involve vaginal penetration. It is still likely to be very harmful and can never be condoned, but that particular physical insult is often not present. Men who abuse girls are often not observing blatant and obvious distress in the girl at the time. They cause great harm but are not sadists or completely oblivious to a girl's feelings.
Well, yes, a 15 year old, if pregnant is close (at least in most states) to being able to drive, hold at least some sort of a job and can be emancipated (in my state it varies county to county on age) but is generally 15-16 yrs old. So, by the time she would have that baby...she could at least in theory play a major role in it's care.
I understand you may not have had emotional repercussions, and I agree that in many cases, the supposed "repercussions" are overstated.
In the case I mentioned earlier, (our personal case) the 13 yr old was NOT mature enough...and was easily led, by the 23 yr old and by her Aunt and Uncle who mislead, and used her.
When charges were pressed against the 23 yr old, it was because her parents really had no choice, once they found out what was going on...keeping them apart them wasn't enough, if children services got wind of it, the parents could've been charged.
I did not mean to imply that in all cases it would be okay, I was only saying that at 13, I was okay having sex, it wasn't abuse, I wasn't hurt by it, but at 13 I was not with men over 18, I was with generally inexperienced boys. I didn't start seeing guys in their twenties until I was 15-16, close or at consent age. I don't think it's cut and dry, but no man over 21 should be having sex with anyone under the age of consent, I become more forgiving when the guy is 18-19, guys just tend to mature slower.
I would also take issue with a 23 year old being with a 13 year old, and many 13 year olds could be hurt by someone, especially an authority figure, or manipulative, very experienced man.
Last edited by detshen; 09-24-2012 at 02:57 PM..
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