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Again, learn the difference between "Christian" and "Conservative". And then learn the difference between Christians and extremist fundamentalist Christians.
I'm well aware of the difference. I'm also aware that damn near every candidate with an (R) next to their name either actively supports the extremist Christian view or at least panders to it. There are exceptions, of course, especially in state and local government (e.g. the R state senator I voted for sponsored our civil union bill).
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The conservative says that both should have equal opportunity under the law.
That is not "equal opportunity." You can't just pretend that centuries of institutionalized racism had no effect and we should should simply ignore it because now we have equals rights for racial minorities. Everyone should be able to get a good education, regardless of where they happen to live and what color their skin happens to be.
There is, of course, also the fact that the law is not enforced equally. Take a look at the FBI's uniform crime reports. Blacks and whites use illegal drugs at roughly the same rate (1.15 black drug users for every 1 white user), yet blacks are 3.4 times more likely to be arrested. That's actually an improvement over the Reagan/Bush I days, when we managed to get it to 5.55 times as likely to be arrested.
While I'm on the drug thing, can someone remind me why crack is punished differently than cocaine? Is it because cocaine is seen as a white middle-upper class drug, while crack is seen as a poor black drug?
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Climate change is attacked because it's bogus
Thanks for reinforcing my point. Why is it bogus? Is it because the evidence doesn't support the conclusions? Is it because the data isn't there? Oh right, no, it's because you have faith that it's bogus, and go after actual science simply because you don't want the findings to be true, as if you can bury your head in the sand and scream loudly enough and that will somehow change reality.
Last edited by i7pXFLbhE3gq; 02-24-2012 at 05:33 PM..
You are talking about Classical liberalism vs. today's "liberals".
Today's liberals are socialists. They have hijacked the term to hide from their "progressivism".
But, they are what they are: Marxist/socialist.
Right-- Forgot this gem! Liberals are socialists.
Once again, I'm sure the liberals here are fine with the private ownership of means of production. As the owner of a corporation myself, I have note the irony. But that irony only pales in comparison to you claiming that liberals have hijacked a term.
Liberalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive, but they aren't close to a progression along the same continuum either.
The whole liberals are socialists meme has to be the one, as a liberal, I find the most absurd, offensive and flat-out wrong.
But don't let that keep you from repeating it! You heard it on Rush right? Mussbe true!
Once again, I'm sure the liberals here are fine with the private ownership of means of production. As the owner of a corporation myself, I have note the irony. But that irony only pales in comparison to you claiming that liberals have hijacked a term.
Liberalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive, but they aren't close to a progression along the same continuum either.
The whole liberals are socialists meme has to be the one, as a liberal, I find the most absurd, offensive and flat-out wrong.
But don't let that keep you from repeating it! You heard it on Rush right? Mussbe true!
One doen't need to hear Rush or anyone else say it. One only needs to look at what today's Democrats (who call themselves "liberals", and more recently have returned to using "progressive"), do and say. They are socialists by their own words and deads.
We have Barack Obama taking over GM. We have heard Congresswoman Maxine Waters saying, "...this liberal will be about ....(pause) taking over your companies". She was speaking to an oil company executive.
There are many, many examples.
They are socialists. Not because Rush says it, but because they say it. Even Hilary Clinton has admitted to it.
It isn't absurd, and it isn't wrong. It happens to be true.
And I bet you are mistaken about my beliefs. I bet your idea of what a liberal believed is based on some nonsense you heard on Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck.
I believe:
* In equality of opportunity (not equality of outcome)
* In social support for those who need it (and throwing those who commit fraud in jail)
* In Science
* Fair Taxation (including a low corporate tax rate, but with few loopholes)
* Local Control of Education (and that a combination of failure of the family structure, technologicalization and union protectionism is ruining education)
* Absolute separation of church and state
Seems pretty mainstream to me...
I think you are confused. I tried to tell you this in another thread. You are confusing "Classical Liberalsim" with the term as it is used today.
They only thing I would disagree with in the above is "Absolute separation of church and state". The reason I disagree is that term as it is applied today has nothing to do with anything in any of our founding documents. You won't even find that term in any of our founding documents.
It is being used today to remove God from all public and political discourse (and many other abuses).
One simply cannot divorce themselves from a conscience and ethic that is rooted in Biblical truth. To do so leaves us with moral relativism (which in itself is a religion). Even our system of law and justice is based on Biblical principles.
Our founders certainly did not separate their faith in God (and contrary to revisionist history, they were all believers) from their service to their country. On the contrary, they prayed for His guidance regularly and wrote of "divine providence", which led to the founding of this great country.
And I bet you are mistaken about my beliefs. I bet your idea of what a liberal believed is based on some nonsense you heard on Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck.
I believe:
* In equality of opportunity (not equality of outcome)
* In social support for those who need it (and throwing those who commit fraud in jail)
* In Science
* Fair Taxation (including a low corporate tax rate, but with few loopholes)
* Local Control of Education (and that a combination of failure of the family structure, technologicalization and union protectionism is ruining education)
* Absolute separation of church and state
Seems pretty mainstream to me...
That's about as reflective of "mainstream" liberal agenda as Ron Paul's agenda to "End The FED" reflective of the Republican party.
In it's purest sense, liberalism is about liberty, i.e. freedom. It's just that in the modern day, liberalism means liberating you from taking on the daunting task of your own personal responsibility, and turning that over to big government to handle for you.
In that case, one could argue pretty easily that large corporations are today's ultimate liberals.
And I bet you are mistaken about my beliefs. I bet your idea of what a liberal believed is based on some nonsense you heard on Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck.
I believe:
* In equality of opportunity (not equality of outcome)
* In social support for those who need it (and throwing those who commit fraud in jail)
* In Science
* Fair Taxation (including a low corporate tax rate, but with few loopholes)
* Local Control of Education (and that a combination of failure of the family structure, technologicalization and union protectionism is ruining education)
* Absolute separation of church and state
Against it. However, I am for supporting poor minority communities with anti-crime and anti-gang programs, education programs, and community building programs. We don't need to have a permanent underclass in the US...
Against it. However, I am for supporting poor minority communities with anti-crime and anti-gang programs, education programs, and community building programs. We don't need to have a permanent underclass in the US...
Good for you.....more money down a rathole with wasted programs.
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