Generation "gimme" What is your American Dream (border, private school, parties)

[reconmark]

Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke

I'll add one more thing, the canary in the coalmine was the AA male. Alot of things talked about in this thread was first witnessed (in media,etc.) with this group---violence, increasing youth unemployment, marginalization, etc. From Charles Murray to Daniel Pat Moniyhan, folks rung the bell but society at large refused to deal with the structural issues on hand. Now we're seeing that what was once a rash has now blossomed into a fullblown epidemic.

You just posted a truth that's so profound, many people will fail to comprehend it!!!

For years some people have tried to insinuate that Black people were "naturally" more violent,didn't really want a job or go to school, looked for a hand out, etc.

It propped up the fable of "white superiority", however when you look at the increasing amount of poor white inner ring suburbs, the "ghetto" mentality being practised by some poor whites, and the crimes they commit, they are well on their way to matching the pathology present in some "ghetto black" communities.

If there aren't opportunities for people to advance themselves and the social safety net isn't an legal option, white people are going to lie, cheat, and steal like everyone else in order to survive and feed their children.

[Gtownoe]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

That's probably not BS. What's changed is probably the expectations of college graduates. Seriously, a lot of these kids will scoff or be crestfallen if you explain to them that they are NOT going to land a gig straight out of school that pays $200K for a 35 hour work week and 6 weeks vacation. Ask some of these kids with no property, no children and no encumbrances other than student debt why they will not accept "this job that pays $45k but involves living in (someplace other than NYC, LA, Chicago, San Fran, Miami, Dallas, etc.) and working weekends" and see what answers you get. I've heard things like "I don't want to get stuck doing that", "that doesn't have anything to do with what I studied", "I need to be in NY" etc. etc.

That's obviously not always the case, but kids lean heavily on crutches like "global recession" when there are lots of opportunities, especially if those opportunities are not conventionally sexy.

45k would give you a nice living in Chicago.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

I hope never, because it isn't true and I say this as a second-half boomer, born in the latter part of the 1950s.
There is absolutely no comparison between the job market in the 70s, 80s, 90s and now. None.

There has never been a time in this country's history when people were saddled with so much debt at so young an age all in the hopes of getting an entry level job that used to be done by someone straight out of high school.

People need to stop pretending that things haven't changed in the last few decades.

I absolutely disagree. If a young adult shoulders $40,000 in student loan debt but comes out on the other side with a B.S. electrical engineering, that was probably a good bet. If a kid declines enrollment at a state school, matriculates at a pricey private school and goes as deeply in debt but emerges on the other side with a degree in humanities or art history, that kid wasn't victimized (unless that kid victimized him/herself).

If a college grad who is a natural go-getter and knows what she wants goes $80,000 into debt for a doctorate of jurisprudence and lands a job with a mid-major firm grossing in the $140,000s, that was a good bet. If a college grad who doesn't know what else to do enrolls in the same law school and goes as deeply into debt but isn't cut out for lawyering, that kid wasn't victimized (unless that kid victimized him/herself).

All that aside, you do not have to burden yourself with ruinous debt in order to get a job or start a career that will be lucrative and if you want to teach, no one should have to tell you not to go completely underwater for your education.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by Gtownoe

45k would give you a nice living in Chicago.

A single kid with rent, food, laundry and a reasonable loan note will have a lot of fun with $45k per year just about anywhere (you may need to split a studio if you're in Manhattan, though), but I meant for that to read as "I will only consider employment in Chicago, NY, LA, San Fran, Miami, Dallas, etc. and will not consider an opportunity in Minnesota, Utah, Arkansas, or Kentucky in spite of having no good reason not to".

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by aus10

True Lily... but... is it OUR personal fault? Things will change between today and tomorrow... so who gets the blame for that little bit of change? That's unfortunately what this whole thread has come down to...

Is it our personal fault?
In so far as we created the expectations and the complacency, I'd say yes, to some extent it is.

We all just kept playing along while tuition rates increased and the bar got set ever higher and now we find ourselves in the midst of a perfect storm where too many are content to label our children and grandchildren 'generation gimee' as if we contributed absolutely nothing to their ways of behaving and thinking.

I think we simply need to stop being defensive and/or dismissive and try to look at these new realities objectively.
People are struggling and it is not because they haven't tried to do the right thing.

[L.Funk]

Originally Posted by Miborn

what the liberals are counting on! It is shameful

Miborn !!!!! ..... On The Money !

Indeed ! .......... Thus the seeds of destruction have been sewn for many years ! Enemies from within have without doubt wiped out many a great empire and or nation in the pages of history !

The American people appear to be teetering on the brink of losing everything that our proud and brave young men and women fought and died for since our greatest General George Washington crossed the Delaware and surprised the Hessians !

Certainly "We The People" are not so apathetic that we will simply allow such "Clueless Morons" to eliminate the national pride and honor of this unique people known as "Americans" !!!

You had damn well better be worried about the stigmata that participated in the professors assignment ! .............. Very worried !

Sailing On The Cape With Ole Capt. Morgan Today ! ..... Cheers ! Old Sgt. Lamar !!!

[Gtownoe]

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

Here's the real deal ... in an open healthy job market, you've got employers who look for one of two types of prospective employees ... 1) experienced, proven talent with a successful background and 2) entry level (whom the employer can hire for much less than the experienced person). And this pretty much is true regardless of industry category, from trade, technical and professional sectors.

Under the current environment with many unemployed across all of those sectors, with a constant flow of college graduates coming out each year .... the differential in pay rates have disappeared ... so the experienced person can be had for what used to be entry level, and the entry level types are far less attractive.

Couple that scenario with the astronomical increases in college tuition costs over the past several years, and you have a significant percentage of college graduates entering a stagnant economy, saddled with school loan debt, and little prospects for employment at all, let alone employment commensurate with the investment made in education.

And the real irony is, employers are often reluctant to hire those who are unemployed, and seem to prefer stealing someone else's employee rather than the one needing the freaking job, and that's the damned truth of the matter. By the same token, employers are also reticent to hire someone who's education exceeds the requirements of the position, knowing that at the first opportunity, they'll bolt for a job that better meets their education levels and salary needs.

So it's a catch 22 for these kids who have been in fact "sold a bill of goods" regarding their employment prospects, as their school debt builds over 4 years. The Schools don't care about anything other than the tuition ... and churning out volume ....

The system is broken HARD ... not just needing adjustments and tweaks, but a serious overhaul ... but I see NOTHING happening in that direction.

Just as an example, there was a job posting in the DC area looking for a post production film editor, with multiple discipline experience, including graphics, as well as shooting experience. This was basically looking for at least three traditionally individual talents all rolled into one person, for 36K salary in the DC region. (36K in DC almost qualifies for food stamps). 5 years ago, just an experienced post editor would command 60-70K or more ... a graphics professional 50K +, and a shooter not even part of this aspect of the industry. This type of thing is what happens in a contracted economy ... as employers capitalize on desperation.

So, a lot of you people who are currently fortunate enough not to be in bad situations like this have a very narrow view of the situation ... but don't worry, the one inescapable reality of economics is that downturns ... particularly the ones that have no possibility of near term recovery will absolutely find you wherever you are. None of us are Islands. We are all connected .... the trash man, the plumber, the information technologist, the waiter ... the chef ... the retail sales .... everyone. The impact just isn't felt across the board, simultaneously ... it's more of a slow, progressive type of decline.

The people who really know the score (because they actually know the depth of the problems, and don't buy the TV propaganda) are anticipating an eventual meltdown, and civil unrest right here in good ole Amerika ... trust me when I tell you, it's not in your best interests to be unfamiliar with reality or lack an appropriate level of humbleness and empathy for those who aren't as fortunate as you may be at the moment. Be careful who you so casually dismiss, because all of them are customers you no longer have ... and the larger that group grows, the closer you are to joining them.

Re-Post. Deserves another read.

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

I absolutely disagree. If a young adult shoulders $40,000 in student loan debt but comes out on the other side with a B.S. electrical engineering, that was probably a good bet. If a kid declines enrollment at a state school, matriculates at a pricey private school and goes as deeply in debt but emerges on the other side with a degree in humanities or art history, that kid wasn't victimized (unless that kid victimized him/herself).

If a college grad who is a natural go-getter and knows what she wants goes $80,000 into debt for a doctorate of jurisprudence and lands a job with a mid-major firm grossing in the $140,000s, that was a good bet. If a college grad who doesn't know what else to do enrolls in the same law school and goes as deeply into debt but isn't cut out for lawyering, that kid wasn't victimized (unless that kid victimized him/herself).

All that aside, you do not have to burden yourself with ruinous debt in order to get a job or start a career that will be lucrative and if you want to teach, no one should have to tell you not to go completely underwater for your education.

You disagree? Really?

It is still debt, is it not?

And, it is still more debt than anyone would have been saddled with in the past.

[CravingMountains]

Originally Posted by Suncc49

I would give someone like yourself a job and an opportunity in a heartbeat.

Those are kind words. Thank you.

I actually think I landed a job last night. I mentioned in my post yesterday that I was going out to apply for bartending positions again. The first bar I applied at gave me an interview on Friday and my friends who worked at the bar said I probably have the job.

Its not what I wanted to do and I went to college to get away from that industry. Also, it should be noted that my bartending experience is not from any cutsie Olive Garden type of place. I have been bartending strictly within gay night clubs ever since I was 19. It really is a tiring and mentally straining work environment, not to mention the effects it has your physical health.

Working in gay bars for the rest of my life is not my "American Dream", but I will do it for now to put cash in my pocket. I just moved to a new city and it will help me network as well.

[Gtownoe]

To make matters worse, there were posters on here actually encouraging the police to mace college students who protested tuition hikes.


PEPPER SPRAY: UC Davis students 'maced' in Occupy protest - YouTube