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You know DD, you make me laugh in almost every post of yours. Would love to have had an opportunity to know/meet you in life. You are clearly a man that doesn't take any $h!t!
No, i don't take it....not because i'm some tough guy, but because i'm tired of these games. Blacks folks find themselves drawn into it time and time again because they go along with the b.s. instead of bluntly telling folks to GTHOH. I tried to be cordial, but at a certain point you've gotta call it what it is....foolishness.
Malcolm talked about these mind games in the Autobiography, and it gave me an awareness that i didn't have before. We don't have to explain ourselves to anyone, nor do we have to justify our name, votes, or anything else.
Why is it that folks don't understand what the term African-American means?
Because there are a lot of ignorant, stupid folks around (this is NOT directed at you, btw).
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It's explained time and time and time and time again (a term used to identify US Blacks whose ancestors were brought over during the slave trade/slavery).
Despite this explanation, folks will chime in:
-What would you call a white person from South Africa? Aren't they African-American?
-What about Haitians, Jamaicans, etc?
-What about African immigrants?
-What about Blacks in Europe?
This clearly shows that you don't even know what you're talking about. How can you question what someone chooses to call themselves if you don't even know what the term means??
Yes, doesn't it drive you batty? I know it drives me batty.
No, i don't take it....not because i'm some tough guy, but because i'm tired of these games. Blacks folks find themselves drawn into it time and time again because they go along with the b.s. instead of bluntly telling folks to GTHOH. I tried to be cordial, but at a certain point you've gotta call it what it is....foolishness.
Malcolm talked about these mind games in the Autobiography, and it gave me an awareness that i didn't have before. We don't have to explain ourselves to anyone, nor do we have to justify our name, votes, or anything else.
You speak a lot of truth. I still find myself wanting to give answers. I tell myself that I hope that they "see the light" but really what I need to realize is that I don't have to justify myself to anyone. I'm actually learning this on this forum more than anywhere else, because what becomes obvious is that if they don't want to hear it, it doesn't matter how many times or how intelligently you tell them the answer.
Nimchimpsky? If a Barbadian is as African as you are, you must be very African. The vast majority of people in the Caribbean are also of African origins - the Caribbean and South America received millions more Africans in the slave trade than what is now the United States, and the vast majority of Caribbean people are much more African culturally and biologically than the vast majority of African Americans.
Okay, I'm sorry I was mistaken about that part. I've had a lot of people from the Caribbean who were then Americanized tell me time and time again how they are not African but just Black. So I didn't realize there were any genetic ties between Africa and Barbados.
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Are you from Abkhazia?
No, and to be honest I don't even know where that is. I don't know crap about my genealogy, except that I was born in Russia. I don't even know who my biological parents are, much less any generation before that (I'm adopted). Pretty much all I have to go on is the fact that I look white, and look very Russian (oily hair, slavic facial features).
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So, we use the term African American for those of African descent whose families have been in the U.S. for centuries and belong to the distinct culture that was formed here. Pretty simple, really.
Which works for me. I'll call people whatever they want to be called. I do think this brings up another point, though, which has been largely ignored so far--the cultural aspect of race.
The fact is that someone who is 1/4 African who looks darker than someone who is 1/2 African will be culturally seen as more African American/Black. They will be treated different. People who look Black, regardless of their actual genealogy, often identify with different cultural norms, and are also treated different by mainstream America (and I don't mean white America when I say that, cause people of color can and do participate in culturally-based racial dynamics just as much as anyone else). People who look very white often get mocked for identifying with Black culture, even if they're genetically substantially African. A lot of mixed people who look very dark are given a hard time about identifying with their non-African heritage, even if it's only as much as they do with their African heritage. There is obviously a sociocultural dynamic that goes on that also plays into the meaning of the words Black and African American, that go above and beyond race and genetics.
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Black is a racial term for people of African (or Melanesian) descent, no matter where they are from around the world. African American is an ethnic term for African descendants from America.
All right. Am I right to say that Black tends to be used for both groups in casual conversation? From plain observation, it seems to me most people default to "Black" in casual conversation, if for no other reason than the fact it's a shorter term.
When you are referring to the distinct culture that was formed here by people whose ancestors were slaves, would you say Black culture? Personally I've never heard "African American culture" referred to before, but then again, I've never come across as many Black people that call themselves African American as I have on CD--so it's possible someone out there somewhere refers to the African American culture.
Okay, I'm sorry I was mistaken about that part. I've had a lot of people from the Caribbean who were then Americanized tell me time and time again how they are not African but just Black. So I didn't realize there were any genetic ties between Africa and Barbados.
It's cool.
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No, and to be honest I don't even know where that is. I don't know crap about my genealogy, except that I was born in Russia. I don't even know who my biological parents are, much less any generation before that. Pretty much all I have to go on is the fact that I look white, and look very Russian (oily hair, slavic facial features).
Abkhazia is a region in southern Russia on the Black Sea coast near Georgia where there is a small indigenous Black population. They are very mixed, of course, but said to be the descendants of Ethiopians. Paul Robeson spoke of meeting black people of this origin while traveling throughout Russia.
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The fact is that someone who is 1/4 African who looks darker than someone who is 1/2 African will be culturally seen as more African American/Black. They will be treated different. People who look Black, regardless of their actual genealogy, often identify with different cultural norms, and are also treated different by mainstream America (and I don't mean white America when I say that, cause people of color can and do participate in culturally-based racial dynamics just as much as anyone else). People who look very white often get mocked for identifying with Black culture, even if they're genetically substantially African. A lot of mixed people who look very dark are given a hard time about identifying with their non-African heritage, even if it's only as much as they do with their African heritage. There is obviously a sociocultural dynamic that goes on that also plays into the meaning of the words Black and African American, that go above and beyond race and genetics
.
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All right. Am I right to say that Black tends to be used for both groups in casual conversation? From plain observation, it seems to me most people default to "Black" in casual conversation, if for no other reason than the fact it's a shorter term.
You can call me Black. I call myself Black in casual conversation. I call myself African American in a more formal ethnic sense. When I talk about my ancestry, I get even more convoluted and complicated. So I don't do it much.
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When you are referring to the distinct culture that was formed here by people whose ancestors were slaves, would you say Black culture? Personally I've never heard African American culture before, but then again, I've never come across as many Black people that call themselves African American as I have on CD--so it's possible someone out there somewhere refers to the African American culture.
[quote=desertdetroiter;22874979]No, i don't take it....not because i'm some tough guy, but because i'm tired of these games. Blacks folks find themselves drawn into it time and time again because they go along with the b.s. instead of bluntly telling folks to GTHOH. I tried to be cordial, but at a certain point you've gotta call it what it is....foolishness.
Malcolm talked about these mind games in the Autobiography, and it gave me an awareness that i didn't have before. We don't have to explain ourselves to anyone, nor do we have to justify our name, votes, or anything else.[/quote]
I totally agree with this and was wondering why some white people (myself included) would even have an opinion on this issue. This is clearly not our issue or our business. Black people should define their own terms and educate the rest of us, if the spirit moves them (and if not, fine - it take energy to educate dumb, racist people and marginalized groups should not be expected to do this).
Abkhazia is a region in southern Russia on the Black Sea coast near Georgia where there is a small indigenous Black population. They are very mixed, of course, but said to be the descendants of Ethiopians. Paul Robeson spoke of meeting black people of this origin while traveling throughout Russia.
Wow. Given the amount of racism that goes around in Russia, I'm surprised they're still alive. When I studied there, people threw the N word around like it was no big deal, and talked about how black people are ugly cause of their fat lips, etc. etc.
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I don't know what you mean by "."
Do you agree with what I'm saying? Disagree? I'm just basing that premise on my experiences with my family. I have a lot of mixed people in my family and it seems like people judge their culture by the color of their skin, instead of just asking them directly or feeling out which cultures they identify with most. An example is my cousins whose parents are Ethiopian and American of Italian descent, who often get mistaken for Latino. People will start talking to them in Spanish right off the bat. That's what I mean by "assuming culture" based on looks. A lot of my mixed friends and family get a lot of grief from people for identifying more with their European/African/Indian/[insert continent] ancestry based on their looks. In other words, if they're lighter people assume they identify more with their European ancestry and if they're darker people assume they identify more with their African ancestry, etc. and criticize them for not matching the culture society assumes to be associated most with their appearances. So it seems to me there is a very apparent link between social and cultural identities, expectations, and norms, and the color of someone's skin, regardless of their genealogy or actual sociocultural identity.
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You can call me Black. I call myself Black in casual conversation. I call myself African American in a more formal ethnic sense. When I talk about my ancestry, I get even more convoluted and complicated. So I don't do it much.
Makes sense. Sounds a lot like how I call myself white but if we're getting more technical, I'll say I was born in Russia, etc.
I totally agree with this and was wondering why some white people (myself included) would even have an opinion on this issue. This is clearly not our issue or our business. Black people should define their own terms and educate the rest of us, if the spirit moves them (and if not, fine - it take energy to educate dumb, racist people and marginalized groups should not be expected to do this).
I'm posting here because I'm trying to be respectful of other people's preferences and I spend a lot of time around Black people, so I want to be educated on the topic. CD seems like a good place to get a wide variety of opinions from other Black people outside of the very small social sphere I find myself in.
I have an opinion on what term to use in general when referring to Black people cause some word needs to be used, but I don't have an opinion on what Black or African American people should call themselves.
Hope that makes sense.
ETA: I was just posting my perspective as one white person, by no means speaking for all white people in this thread.
Wow. Given the amount of racism that goes around in Russia, I'm surprised they're still alive. When I studied there, people threw the N word around like it was no big deal, and talked about how black people are ugly cause of their fat lips, etc. etc.
Yeah, that's a racist place........
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I don't know what you mean by "."
I didn't even mean to include any response to that statement - I had not intended to put a period there.
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Do you agree with what I'm saying? Disagree? I'm just basing that premise on my experiences with my family. I have a lot of mixed people in my family and it seems like people judge their culture by the color of their skin, instead of just asking them directly or feeling out which cultures they identify with most. An example is my cousins whose parents are Ethiopian and American of Italian descent, who often get mistaken for Latino. People will start talking to them in Spanish right off the bat.
On the West Coast or among Mexican/Central Americans, they often speak Spanish in front of me (and sometimes say really racist stuff) because they don't realize I speak the language. On the other hand, in New York, Philly, Puerto Rico, etc., people assume I do speak Spanish.
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That's what I mean by "assuming culture" based on looks. A lot of my mixed friends and family get a lot of grief from people for identifying more with their European/African/Indian/[insert continent] ancestry based on their looks. In other words, if they're lighter people assume they identify more with their European ancestry and if they're darker people assume they identify more with their African ancestry, etc. and criticize them for not matching the culture society assumes to be associated most with their appearances. So it seems to me there is a very apparent link between social and cultural identities, expectations, and norms, and the color of someone's skin, regardless of their genealogy or actual sociocultural identity.
I'm posting here because I'm trying to be respectful of other people's preferences and I spend a lot of time around Black people, so I want to be educated on the topic. CD seems like a good place to get a wide variety of opinions from other Black people outside of the very small social sphere I find myself in.
I have an opinion on what term to use in general when referring to Black people cause some word needs to be used, but I don't have an opinion on what Black or African American people should call themselves.
Hope that makes sense.
ETA: I was just posting my perspective as one white person, by no means speaking for all white people in this thread.
I asked this a while back, but did not get an answer. Can you give an example of WHY "some word needs to be used?" What is the context when you, a presumably white person, NEED to refer to a black person as a black person . . . why do white people need to talk about black people as black people and not just people?
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