Right wingers act as if obama was handed a surplus or something... (Congress, Iraq)
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This is not "other recessions." This is a credit driven phenomenon which we haven't seen before.
Fair enough. I try and judge politicians by their actions rather than their words.
it is nice to judge on actions. I would argue that if a man tells me he will do something and it will bring certain results, then he does that something, I can then judge both the action and his wisdom by the result.
In Obama's case, he did do what he said he wanted to do. He said it would keep unemployment below 8%.
No I act like he was elected President, a position of immense responsibility that entails dealing with endless problems, a crisis or two, and lots and lots of what could only be called crap.
Little did I know that he would respond by whining and blaming everybody else with legions of leftist malcontents thowing hissy fits whenever someone deigned to criticize the water walker.
Well hey, at least you're evaluating his job performance rationally.
The man was handed the worst finacnial crisis and recession in 80 years, 2 wars, highest poverty rate in 40 years, and a deficit with zero domestic infrastructure to show for it.
He avoided a depression, killed bin laden, improved the health care system, killed Gaddhaffi, ended Iraq, killed Al Qaeda's new #1, killed al qaeda's #2, averted 2 terrorist attacks, handled a divided Congress using compromise and leadership, and he will be re-elected because the GOP can't seem to run anyone who knows how to avoid saying crazy sh**.
it is nice to judge on actions. I would argue that if a man tells me he will do something and it will bring certain results, then he does that something, I can then judge both the action and his wisdom by the result.
In Obama's case, he did do what he said he wanted to do. He said it would keep unemployment below 8%.
It's not quite wearing a flight suit with a "mission accomplished" banner in the background, though, is it?
Well hey, at least you're evaluating his job performance rationally.
The man was handed the worst finacnial crisis and recession in 80 years, 2 wars, highest poverty rate in 40 years, and a deficit with zero domestic infrastructure to show for it.
He avoided a depression, killed bin laden, improved the health care system, killed Gaddhaffi, ended Iraq, killed Al Qaeda's new #1, killed al qaeda's #2, averted 2 terrorist attacks, handled a divided Congress using compromise and leadership, and he will be re-elected because the GOP can't seem to run anyone who knows how to avoid saying crazy sh**.
No the economy was as bad or worse in 1980.
and he worsed the healthcare situation.
as for poverty, the rate has climed since he came into office.
Bammer has done NOTHING GOOD FOR THE POOR.
He has however, saddled my children with government debt they will never be able to pay off
This depression has a different cause than the garden variety cold war recessions. You're talking about apples and oranges. Our current situation is far more severe than what Reagan faced.
Unemployment was at 13.9% in 1940 and only decreased after the military draft was reinstated in 1941. By what objective standard was the New Deal successful?
What's more server about this recession?
Unemployment never reached 10.8%.
Inflation was near zero when Obama took over and is now 4%.
Gasoline was under $2.00/gal. in 2008.
The inflation adjusted price of gasoline was over $4.00/gal in 1980.
This depression has a different cause than the garden variety cold war recessions. You're talking about apples and oranges. Our current situation is far more severe than what Reagan faced.
you are looking at japan for economic policy? and you are suggesting that the new deal was successful? japans lost decade was due to their creating their own new deal. as for our new deal being successful, unless you consider a low unemployment figure of 13% good considering all the government spending that was done, raising taxes on businesses and ever increasing regulations on business that essentially stifled business growth during that time, then yes, the new deal was indeed successful. and if that is the yardstick that you are using for the obama administration, then yes they are also quite successful.
however i was actually looking for less government spending, the fiscal responsibility that obama campaigned on, and because of his railing against the spending of the bush administration. i was also looking for that "most transparent administration in history" as well, again what he campaigned on. and yet we got NONE of that. truth be told i knew before he was elected that obama would try to do everything he has done, which is why i voted for mccain, though i doubt he would have been much better.
Unemployment was at 13.9% in 1940 and only decreased after the military draft was reinstated in 1941. By what objective standard was the New Deal successful?
it created jobs during that time of high unemployment to temporarily replace those jobs lost by structural changes in the economy.
Quote:
What's more server about this recession?
our private sector is saturated with debt in an (almost) unprecedented fashion.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think unemployment was calculated the same way in 1980 as it is today. I'm not saying employment is worse today because I don't know. I know that UE is not the only way to measure what is happening with the american labor force:
Inflation was near zero when Obama took over and is now 4%.
Same for inflation. Inflation is not calculated the same way.
Looking outside of CPI, median wages are declining today. You might freak out about inflation based on some long term theoretical scenario of the consequences of increasing the monetary base, but the facts right now are that we are fighting deflation. The fact that we've increased CPI from 0 to 4% is a minor victory. Our economy fails if we don't have core inflation (commodity inflation is another story). It is stupid but it is the financial system we've legislated for ourselves.
Quote:
Gasoline was under $2.00/gal. in 2008.
The inflation adjusted price of gasoline was over $4.00/gal in 1980.
Gas is about $3.50/gal now. Not a huge difference. Arguably, high gas prices are an indicator of more economic activity anyways so that's a mixed signal.
I would add that in 1980, we had not just ended a 30-year cycle of declining interest rates, like we have today. Interest rates were high, and had a long ways to go down, which is a big part of what enabled/encouraged us to create all this new debt in the first place, and drove much of our so called "growth", which was really just debt. Since the 1980 recession, most Americans have been growing our spending power with more debt. Our country's total salaries and wages have been decreasing recently, which never happened in 1980.
This has all been fun, but I just got Battlefield 3 in the mail and am about to go kick some ass. Good day.
Last edited by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus; 10-26-2011 at 05:08 PM..
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