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Old 04-25-2011, 12:09 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
Reputation: 10270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
If it's handed to one person and the other person has to seek it out, then that's not equality of opportunity.
Sure it is.

You still need to take the initial steps to go after it.

Many people are too lazy.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:12 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
So then, you're fine when 'suits' (who by the way are not the sole owners) and their so-called 'management' often create great losses for businesses yet they still collect their bloated contractual salaries, eh? Just HOW is that creating wealth for anyone but the suits? Sounds like you have your own rather skewed concept of 'fairness'

BTW: it's leeches
Thank you for the correction.

When a corporation loses money, their share holders lose.

Employees still earn their salary or hourly wages.

Sure, they may be laid off or have their hours cut, but that's part of living in a free society.

Why do you say the all "suits" have "bloated salaries"?
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:16 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Business owners can create anything they want to. Without consumer demand, he's no more than a creator. And without good talent around him, he won't meet consumer demand and won't be seeing ANY wealth.

Yes, the onus is most certainly on the business owner and he/she is the catalyst and should be properly rewarded for such....but that doesn't mean that others in the process are rendered meaningless.
I never implied that people are meaningless.

Some are more valued than others in certain positions, such as the good talent around him that you mentioned.

Your responsibility to yourself is to make yourself valuable to your employer, or, better yet, become a business owner.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:21 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
A business runs with workers. Without workers, there are no products.

Simply put no products means no business.

My nephew understood that when he was 3.

Is that such a hard concept. Hell, you even alluded that you need to pay talent well to have successful business. Now you're saying that workers are not needed for a successful business? Which is it?
There is much more labor available than job creators.

Lack of labor will never be a problem.

Therefore, the employer is more important than the employee.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,999,629 times
Reputation: 7315
"Are we for equality of opportunity or outcome?"

Opportunity. Never outcome, as that is controlled by individuals.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:24 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
I only care about myself.

But, in caring about myself I have put a lot of money in the system...creating jobs.
Exactly.

People do not start businesses with the thought of how many jobs they will create.

They do it for profit.

A hard concept for some of these people.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:28 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1 View Post
I should not have stooped to that. It was immature. I will edit the comments. Hopefully, and sincerely, I hope that alphamale will also delete the same comments he made (verbatim).
I meant what I said.

I didn't mean to imply that you are stupid, only to think the thought all the way through before posting it.

Example. (and this is just an example, not based on anything that you actually posted). Minimum wage should be $20 per hour. That way everyone would have enough money.

Think something like that through before posting it.

You cannot break the argument.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:31 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,082,257 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
People in unions are in a class all on their own, you can't get much lower so it would be hard to find a scab that is betraying their own class. Only a union fool would try to tell remind someone of the "proper place" they feel someone should be in.
I come from a union household.

I've seen union members cut each others throats many times.

For instance, a more seasoned worker that is financially set will not even consider giving up their OT for the benefit of a younger, less paid worker.

It's dog eat dog in the union world, but they portray their own as saints and demonize the business owners as greedy.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:34 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,999,629 times
Reputation: 7315
Agreed, alpha, 2 tier systems are the perfect evidence. In the interest of "brotherhood", why have you never seen a local fight for a blended, average wage, where tier 1 would take cuts, but tier 2 would not be so much lower than tier 1. It would be the same, blended average pay rate. Oops, me bad..forgot brotherhood is a sham.

Basically, tier 2 is thrown to the wolves, so tier 1 can be fat and happy, eating tier 2.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:35 PM
 
Location: NE CT
1,496 posts, read 3,389,938 times
Reputation: 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Every time a leftist is in front of a camera, the first point they make about about "fairness".

Are we for equality of opportunity or outcome?
Our economy has nothing to do with "fairness". Never was and never meant to be. It's only since the Progressives have emerged in society that "fairness" has been injected into the economy through "social engineering" that has nothing to do with capitalism.

We have equality of of opportunity, particularly in the last 50 years since the social engineering through government programs that give preferential treatment in both government and the private sector which give minorities automatic preferential consideration in jobs, business, and government.

It's time to judge everyone on the content of their character, and the accomplishments in their efforts in life, rather than the color of their skin.
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