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View Poll Results: Is conspiring to overthrow the US government illegal?
Yes it is illegal 45 75.00%
No it is not illegal 5 8.33%
It's only illegal if done forcefully or violently 9 15.00%
I have no idea 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2011, 02:31 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,475,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Well, if that is your idea, it would require a constitutional amendment, or framing of a whole new constitution. It wasn't illegal when US constitution replaced the Articles of Confederacy. And amendments certainly aren't illegal by nature. And definitely not an "overthrow".
amendents can't end the republic. They have to meet Constitutional muster. Overthrowing the government, again, ending the Republic, is treason. Conspiring to do it is sedition. Both illegal.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,860,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
amendents can't end the republic. They have to meet Constitutional muster. Overthrowing the government, again, ending the Republic, is treason. Conspiring to do it is sedition. Both illegal.
Could a constitution be replaced by another, without it being illegal?
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:39 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,105,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
amendents can't end the republic.
Say what? The Constitution is a compact, not the holy scriptures. It can be amended to do anything that such amendments require it to do. For example; an article could be placed in the Constitution calling for a national referendum dissolving the union and once passed would be beyond the scope of judicial review.

Quote:
They have to meet Constitutional muster.
Once the Constitution is amended there is no muster, ketchup or relish for said amendment to meet. Once adopted it is as much the law of the land as any other article or amendment.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:40 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,105,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Could a constitution be replaced by another, without it being illegal?
Well that is certainly how the present Constitution came into affect by rendering the Articles of Confederation null and void and effectively ending the existence of the United States as a confederation of states.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
You are hilarious...... You cannot amend it if it contradicts it.
This just gets dumber and dumber...

If an amendment doesn't contradict what's already in the Constitution, why would there even need to be an amendment at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD
The amendments have to be CONSTITUTIONAL.
That's just goofy. If an amendment passes, it's not just constitutional, it is the Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD
They have to fall in line with the rest of the document. You can't stick an amendment in there that says we no longer have unalienable rights.
Sure you can. I don't suspect anybody will, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't get through the ratification process, but you can.

Look for example at prohibition and its repeal. Directly contradictory. Both were constitutional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD
You know why? Because that very document with the BOR says that they are UNALIENABLE.
Uhhh... you've got your documents confused.

That's the Declaration of Independence.

Not the Constitution.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:42 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,475,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Say what? The Constitution is a compact, not the holy scriptures. It can be amended to do anything that such amendments require it to do. For example; an article could be placed in the Constitution calling for a national referendum dissolving the union and once passed would be beyond the scope of judicial review.



Once the Constitution is amended there is no muster, ketchup or relish for said amendment to meet. Once adopted it is as much the law of the land as any other article or amendment.
nope. sorry, nadda. You can't contradict it. Nope not in any way. Dissolving the union is not ending the republic, it is ending the union. Secession is not sedition or treason. The states' Constitutions still reflect the US Constitution.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,102,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Secession is not sedition or treason.
There are about 620,000 Americans who died to prove you wrong on that point.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:52 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,475,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
This just gets dumber and dumber...

If an amendment doesn't contradict what's already in the Constitution, why would there even need to be an amendment at all?
What? Do you even know what contradicts means? I'm thinking not. You can't have an amendment that goes against what is said earlier in that document nor can it contradict the BOR.
That's just goofy. If an amendment passes, it's not just constitutional, it is the Constitution.
It has to fall in line with the rest of the document as I stated above so it WILL pass.


Sure you can. I don't suspect anybody will, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't get through the ratification process, but you can.
No, you mean you can TRY but it will NEVER pass, so in effect you CAN'T.

Look for example at prohibition and its repeal. Directly contradictory. Both were constitutional.
Alcohol isn't constitutionally protected. Those are mere laws you are talking about. Laws come and go all the time.

Uhhh... you've got your documents confused.

That's the Declaration of Independence.
You are correct here. I said BOR not DOI for the unalienable rights thing.
Not the Constitution.
Let's debunk, shall we? My answers in red.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:53 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,475,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
There are about 620,000 Americans who died to prove you wrong on that point.
it's not. They are different things. I thought you were some sort of knowledge god? Not doing so well on this topic.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:57 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,105,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Dissolving the union is not ending the republic, it is ending the union.
50-50= what?

Would someone with a hint of a working brain try to explain the above statement in a rational and cogent manner?

Quote:
Secession is not sedition or treason.
I was wondering when we were going to roll this into the discussion. It took longer than I would have previously guessed.
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