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View Poll Results: Is conspiring to overthrow the US government illegal?
Yes it is illegal 45 75.00%
No it is not illegal 5 8.33%
It's only illegal if done forcefully or violently 9 15.00%
I have no idea 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2011, 02:05 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,492,528 times
Reputation: 4243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
That is just dumb.

If "by force" was only meant to qualify "destroy" it is redundant and pointless. I for one have ever seen a peaceful destruction.

You are correct that there are three ways to break this law, but you get two of them wrong. They are:

1. Conspire to overthrow by force.
2. Conspire to put down by force.
3. Conspire to destroy by force

It is not seditious to conspire to overthrow the government through the mechanism outlines in the Constitution for doing so.

The law even stresses "by force" more than once.
That's not what it means. It means what I said. It is ILLEGAL to simply conspire the overthrow in ANY WAY. Again, meaning changing from Representative Republic to Democracy.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,124,137 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
I see what the lefties are doing here. They are trying to be wordsmiths. I am not talking about changing PEOPLE! I'm talking about changing our FORM of government from a representative republic to full blown pure democracy. DUH!
if you want different answers you should ask different questions. I for one, however, feel the discussion has turned out to be a good one.

It is one of the handful of key features that has made our form of government so successful and the model on which scores of other Constitutions were later written... the peaceful transfer of power between opposing political factions.

This is what makes us special... we can overthrow our government without bloodshed, violence and anarchy descending on burning cities.

It is what helps makes us great.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,124,137 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
That's not what it means. It means what I said. It is ILLEGAL to simply conspire the overthrow in ANY WAY. Again, meaning changing from Representative Republic to Democracy.
No... it does not.

Such an interpretation would make it illegal to hold a political convention or for Congress to debate a Constitutional amendment.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,909,834 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
I see what the lefties are doing here. They are trying to be wordsmiths. I am not talking about changing PEOPLE! I'm talking about changing our FORM of government from a representative republic to full blown pure democracy. DUH!
Run!
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:11 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,492,528 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
That is just dumb.

If "by force" was only meant to qualify "destroy" it is redundant and pointless. I for one have ever seen a peaceful destruction.

You are correct that there are three ways to break this law, but you get two of them wrong. They are:

1. Conspire to overthrow by force.
2. Conspire to put down by force.
3. Conspire to destroy by force

It is not seditious to conspire to overthrow the government through the mechanism outlines in the Constitution for doing so.

The law even stresses "by force" more than once.
You know what? Let's say you are right, which you are not, any conspiring to do this would involve using force anyway because it's the only way it can be done. You can't vote to end the Republic. Gathering protestors is a show of force. Any way it can be done has to involve force. But I still don't think you are reading it right anyway.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:12 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,492,528 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
No... it does not.

Such an interpretation would make it illegal to hold a political convention or for Congress to debate a Constitutional amendment.
What???? What political conventions talk about ending the Republic? If there are some they should be arrested.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,124,137 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
You know what? Let's say you are right, which you are not, any conspiring to do this would involve using force anyway because it's the only way it can be done.
Nonsense.

Conspire to elect a government that will then amend the Constitution.

Easy, peasy. No force required.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:13 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,492,528 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
if you want different answers you should ask different questions. I for one, however, feel the discussion has turned out to be a good one.

It is one of the handful of key features that has made our form of government so successful and the model on which scores of other Constitutions were later written... the peaceful transfer of power between opposing political factions.

This is what makes us special... we can overthrow our government without bloodshed, violence and anarchy descending on burning cities.

It is what helps makes us great.
Don't be ignorant and play dumb. That is not what this thread is about and you know it.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,124,137 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
What???? What political conventions talk about ending the Republic?
None that I'm aware of.

But at least one of them always talks about overthrowing the government.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,124,137 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Don't be ignorant and play dumb. That is not what this thread is about and you know it.
Like I said... if you wanted a different answer, you should have asked a different question.
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