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i imagine something incredibly insanely radical like to challenge them on their aspects that are unconstitutional.
I have to say that I wouldn't think the federal government will challenge any of these laws if any actually attain the status of "law", until the "law" actually challenges anyone's eligibility. And I don't see that happening, because the states may ask for the documentation, but in order to disqualify anyone, the state would have to actually challenge the veracity of such documents. Arizona is not going to challenge Hawaii on the veracity of Obama's birth certificate, no matter what scenario the birthers fantasize about. They have no grounds to challenge Hawaii.
what on the "long-form" would have any relevance to eligibility that was not on the COLB that was released?
That is easy "true evidence of birth". The COLB was printed in 2007 or 2008, I forget. It very easily, and almost certainly, was done so without any supporting documents behind it, i.e. the State's copy of the long form. In otherwords is a forgery issued by the activist state government. Even the governor said he couldn't find the original, and the hospitals where the two announcements said he was born in (imagine that one, for a second or two), have no record.
Nothing, but an easily "forged" document generated in 2007 by a state with dubious motives.
I hope you now understand why nobody believes that COLB genuinely relfects the facts. Why is this so GD hard to understand. We simply don't believe the COLB and we, BTW, are the owners/employers of the POS.
None of which have anything to do with eligibility for the Presidency.
Establishes Natural Born Status. If he was born on a ship on its way to Hawaii, well he wouldn't even be a citizen because citizenship is based on the citizenship of the Father, not Mother, and he was never naturalized. So factually, he is still a Kenyan citizen.
I have to say that I wouldn't think the federal government will challenge any of these laws if any actually attain the status of "law", until the "law" actually challenges anyone's eligibility. And I don't see that happening, because the states may ask for the documentation, but in order to disqualify anyone, the state would have to actually challenge the veracity of such documents. Arizona is not going to challenge Hawaii on the veracity of Obama's birth certificate, no matter what scenario the birthers fantasize about. They have no grounds to challenge Hawaii.
Several of these bills, including Arizona's, requires that the candidate also provide "a sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America."
There is nothing in the Constitution that says that dual citizenship makes any candidate ineligible for the presidency, and would thus be challenged on facial grounds. Many of the states provide for no appeal or review of a decision to not put somebody on the ballot if they are not satisfied with the documentation provided (grounds by which a Secretary of State would make that decision are unclear). Others actually violate the 12th Amendment as well, by not subjecting a vice presidential candidate to the same standard.
On the other hand, having only eligible candidates on the ballot is a concern. In 2008, Roger Calero was able to be on the presidential ballot in five states, despite not being born in the US (and I'm pretty sure he's not actually a citizen of the US at all!). But in reality, none of these bills are aimed at Roger Calero; they're all aimed at doing anything they can to undermine the legitimacy (even if only in the mind of birthers) of President Obama.
Establishes Natural Born Status. If he was born on a ship on its way to Hawaii, well he wouldn't even be a citizen because citizenship is based on the citizenship of the Father, not Mother, and he was never naturalized. So factually, he is still a Kenyan citizen.
The birth certificate that he posted on his website established natural born citizenship. I don't care if you think it's a forgery. I care if you can prove that it's a forgery. So far you can't. And as long as Hawaii stands by the birth certificate, which they have done and continue to do, factually, he is a natural-born American citizen. Them's the facts. Why do some people have such a GD hard time understanding the facts?
[quote=jeffington;17779831]That is easy "true evidence of birth". The COLB was printed in 2007 or 2008, I forget.[quote]
And it has the state seal on it, with authentication by the director of the Department of Health, as required under HI state law.
Quote:
It very easily, and almost certainly, was done so without any supporting documents behind it, i.e. the State's copy of the long form.
What evidence do you have to support that allegation? Your pure speculation is not a basis to conclude that Obama's COLB was printed "without any supporting documents behind it."
Quote:
In otherwords [sic] is a forgery issued by the activist state government.
The Republican governor of Hawaii, and her Republican appointee to the Department of Health have both affirmed multiple times that the COLB is legitimate, and that the original vital records that they have clearly show that Barack Obama was born in Honolulu; specifically at Kapi'olani Hospital.
Quote:
Even the governor said he couldn't find the original,
You have been lied to by WorldNetDaily or whatever birther blog copied the
WorldNetDaily article. Governor Abercrombie said no such thing. If he did, please point out where he did in the interview WND linked to.
and the hospitals where the two announcements said he was born in (imagine that one, for a second or two), have no record.
Please provide evidence of that. Note that refusing to respond to a question about hospital records is not the same thing as saying they have no record at all. The hospitals would be violating HIPPA if they did otherwise.
Quote:
Nothing, but an easily "forged" document generated in 2007 by a state with dubious motives.
I hope you now understand why nobody believes that COLB genuinely relfects the facts. Why is this so GD hard to understand. We simply don't believe the COLB and we, BTW, are the owners/employers of the POS.
Please provide any evidence whatsoever that the COLB is forged. Are you going to go with the thoroughly discredited Ron Polland, or the thoroughly discredited TexasDarlin?
Several of these bills, including Arizona's, requires that the candidate also provide "a sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America."
There is nothing in the Constitution that says that dual citizenship makes any candidate ineligible for the presidency, and would thus be challenged on facial grounds. Many of the states provide for no appeal or review of a decision to not put somebody on the ballot if they are not satisfied with the documentation provided (grounds by which a Secretary of State would make that decision are unclear). Others actually violate the 12th Amendment as well, by not subjecting a vice presidential candidate to the same standard.
On the other hand, having only eligible candidates on the ballot is a concern. In 2008, Roger Calero was able to be on the presidential ballot in five states, despite not being born in the US (and I'm pretty sure he's not actually a citizen of the US at all!). But in reality, none of these bills are aimed at Roger Calero; they're all aimed at doing anything they can to undermine the legitimacy (even if only in the mind of birthers) of President Obama.
I realize that the states are trying to impose requirements that go beyond the Constitution, but what I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, that until a state actually disqualifies a candidate, that the federal government won't act. I believe this for a number of reasons. First, because it's politically a lose-lose lawcase for the federal government. It actually benefits the birthers if the federal government challenges these laws, adding to the impression that there is something to hide. Secondly, lawsuits are time-consuming and expensive. And it's way easier to go forward in a lawsuit when you can demonstrate the damage the law causes, rather than theorize the damage the law may cause. So, I think there's more on the pro side to holding off trying to get these laws declared Unconstitutional than there is on the con side.
That is easy "true evidence of birth". The COLB was printed in 2007 or 2008, I forget. It very easily, and almost certainly, was done so without any supporting documents behind it, i.e. the State's copy of the long form. In otherwords is a forgery issued by the activist state government. Even the governor said he couldn't find the original, and the hospitals where the two announcements said he was born in (imagine that one, for a second or two), have no record.
1) You have made here an accusation of a crime. Do you have any evidence of one? Because you know (I hope) that criminal proof is a higher standard than civil proof. So where is yours?
2. The two birth announcements are identical. Neither mentions a hospital.
3. No hospital has ever denied having a record, as it would be a violation of HIPAA laws to do so. That said, medical records are not generally kept for 50 years anyways... so who cares?
4. The governor did not say he couldn't find an original. Stop making stuff up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffington
Why is this so GD hard to understand. We simply don't believe the COLB and we, BTW, are the owners/employers of the POS.
Witnesses or signatures do not establish natural born citizenship. Birth on American soil does.
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