Suburb of the week: Wall (Pittsburgh, Allentown: appointed, real estate, rentals)

[PreservationPioneer]

Wall isn't bad. It's just a tiny working class town / suburb with late 19th century homes. It's not abandoned or crime-ridden like Braddock. Lots of people choose to live in the suburbs. What's the industry of Gibsonia? Nobody says Fox Chapel needs an industry to exist. I wish we could torch Monroeville and Murrysville, and keep Wall, Wilmerding, and Pitcairn. You know, places that have character and history.

[pittsburghaccuweather]

Originally Posted by Geeo

Gotta love our 18th century structure of towns in Pennsylvania. So many of these little hamlets are not sustainable on their own anymore, have lost their one industry or reason for existing, yet it's like pulling teeth to merge or consolidate.

I’m sure keeping to this 18th century Commonwealth mindset and refusal to change has nothing to do with the high taxes to support the duplication of services. Nor do I think it kills business or growth either. Just think how fun it would be to deal with a huge tract of land touching multiple municipalities and school districts if you wanted to do a large business development or manufacturing plant.

Studies dating back to the 1920s on Allegheny County said municipalities needed to consolidate to allow Pittsburgh to grow and not be a himderance to economic development in the region.

What is interesting is voters in Allegheny county twice voted in favor of consolidation back in the 1920s. The commonwealth intervened and killed it twice. People wanted their fifedoms intact. In the mid 2000s there was another study completed that said the same thing as back in the 20s. Yet where are we at with consolidation?

The refusal to merge and streamline municipalities has killed job growth and hindered Pittsburgh from being truly a world class city. It is forever stuck being a small city surrounded by hundreds of municipalities where half can’t afford to operate on their own yet continue to do so because of the culture and a commonwealth that continues to Allow it to go on.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Wall isn't bad. It's just a tiny working class town / suburb with late 19th century homes. It's not abandoned or crime-ridden like Braddock. Lots of people choose to live in the suburbs. What's the industry of Gibsonia? Nobody says Fox Chapel needs an industry to exist. I wish we could torch Monroeville and Murrysville, and keep Wall, Wilmerding, and Pitcairn. You know, places that have character and history.

Hey, don't go bad mouthing Gibsonia. For the record, there is no mayor of Gibsonia. And those of us in the Great State of McCandless hate having to share the 15044 zip with those have-nots in Frazier and East Deer. The Wall, Wilmerding, and Pitcairn area started to decline after they closed the Winky's in Wilmerding, I know, I grew up out there. All have been in free fall since the decline of US Steel and Westinghouse, specifically the "Air Brake". Tons of section 8, single family homes converted to multi-family, and drugs running wild. Very sad to see for those of us who had a great childhood growing up there. I don't know how much merging the 3 would help, the lack of jobs is the main killer, and they ain't comin' back.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Hey, don't go bad mouthing Gibsonia. For the record, there is no mayor of Gibsonia. And those of us in the Great State of McCandless hate having to share the 15044 zip with those have-nots in Frazier and East Deer. The Wall, Wilmerding, and Pitcairn area started to decline after they closed the Winky's in Wilmerding, I know, I grew up out there. All have been in free fall since the decline of US Steel and Westinghouse, specifically the "Air Brake". Tons of section 8, single family homes converted to multi-family, and drugs running wild. Very sad to see for those of us who had a great childhood growing up there. I don't know how much merging the 3 would help, the lack of jobs is the main killer, and they ain't comin' back.

The best bet wouldn't be to merge the dying boroughs together, but to have them fold back into the greater suburban townships surrounding them. So Pitcairn into Monroeville, Wall and perhaps Wilmerding into North Versailles. These small boroughs already don't have their own school districts, and many municipal services have had to be merged with neighboring municipalities and/or just contracted out to their bigger neighbors. Might as well make it official.

[Copanut]

Merge with Monroeville, not on my watch! We hated those rich bastids!

[PreservationPioneer]

Jobs won't necessarily turn around these small towns (although it certainly wouldn't hurt). They're in suburban Pittsburgh and people have cars nowadays. What's stopping them from going to work somewhere else in the county, like everyone else in the suburbs? It's not like people in the suburbs live where they work..

So the logic is if a major employer opened in Pitcairn or McKeesport or McKees Rocks, everyone would be clamoring to live there? No, they would just drive to work. It would certainly be a good thing to have more jobs in depressed communities. If the jobs had remained back in the day when everyone lived where they worked, these towns would probably look a little better. Then again, maybe not. Braddock still has a steel mill.

I guess my point is we are dealing with class and status perceptions in some of these areas that keep people from wanting to live there. The snobbery of it all. These issues also drove people away from places like Braddock to the suburbs long before any kind of economic slump. I'm guessing people were leaving Wall before the jobs left.

[norcider]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Jobs won't necessarily turn around these small towns (although it certainly wouldn't hurt). They're in suburban Pittsburgh and people have cars nowadays. What's stopping them from going to work somewhere else in the county, like everyone else in the suburbs? It's not like people in the suburbs live where they work..

So the logic is if a major employer opened in Pitcairn or McKeesport or McKees Rocks, everyone would be clamoring to live there? No, they would just drive to work. It would certainly be a good thing to have more jobs in depressed communities. If the jobs had remained back in the day when everyone lived where they worked, these towns would probably look a little better. Then again, maybe not. Braddock still has a steel mill.

I guess my point is we are dealing with class and status perceptions in some of these areas that keep people from wanting to live there. The snobbery of it all. These issues also drove people away from places like Braddock to the suburbs long before any kind of economic slump. I'm guessing people were leaving Wall before the jobs left.

Good post. If I was a younger single dude starting my career I'd totally buy this place for under $60K and have money left over to start filling up this garage!

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...64_rect/14_zm/

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Jobs won't necessarily turn around these small towns (although it certainly wouldn't hurt). They're in suburban Pittsburgh and people have cars nowadays. What's stopping them from going to work somewhere else in the county, like everyone else in the suburbs? It's not like people in the suburbs live where they work..

So the logic is if a major employer opened in Pitcairn or McKeesport or McKees Rocks, everyone would be clamoring to live there? No, they would just drive to work. It would certainly be a good thing to have more jobs in depressed communities. If the jobs had remained back in the day when everyone lived where they worked, these towns would probably look a little better. Then again, maybe not. Braddock still has a steel mill.

I guess my point is we are dealing with class and status perceptions in some of these areas that keep people from wanting to live there. The snobbery of it all. These issues also drove people away from places like Braddock to the suburbs long before any kind of economic slump. I'm guessing people were leaving Wall before the jobs left.

There's also the issue that these communities don't really appeal to "urbanists" either. Too far outside of the core considering the embarrassment of riches Pittsburgh has in terms of gritty old walkable towns. This is particularly the case because the kind of younger people interested in living in urban neighborhoods these days mostly have jobs located in the city itself. Why buy a house in Wall if you work in Pittsburgh when you could find one in say Swissvale (or even further in) which is very affordable as well?

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There's also the issue that these communities don't really appeal to "urbanists" either. Too far outside of the core considering the embarrassment of riches Pittsburgh has in terms of gritty old walkable towns. This is particularly the case because the kind of younger people interested in living in urban neighborhoods these days mostly have jobs located in the city itself. Why buy a house in Wall if you work in Pittsburgh when you could find one in say Swissvale (or even further in) which is very affordable as well?

I agree. I can't answer these questions, either. My opinion is that different communities have different charms. Wall isn't exactly urban, though. Wall has a very rural, isolated feel that may appeal to someone. I think it's a neat place. I'm sure there are other people who like Wall besides me. Who knows, though. I kind of wish we could interview people who live in these places and like where they live, kind of like the lady who lived in Troy Hill and was so excited by the view in that Pittsburgh documentary. That was before Troy Hill was cool. I wish there were more people like that. Seems like nobody gets excited about stuff like that any more. My point is, there may be other options, but each neighborhood is unique and special in its own way. We don't have to trash one town because there is another town closer to the city.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by norcider

Good post. If I was a younger single dude starting my career I'd totally buy this place for under $60K and have money left over to start filling up this garage!

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...64_rect/14_zm/

That is a great deal. I'm thinking about all the antique cars I could collect with a garage like that!