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It is quite simple, where would you go? I have lived in Pittsburgh for 20+ years and even own property there, but I would never go back to live. Like many blacks, I moved to Atlanta and seen something that you never see in Pittsburgh, A large number of black professionals. I mean if you think about it, if you grow up and you never see an engineer, doctor or a millionaire that looks like you and lived where you did, how do you think that will effect the children?
Sadly, I have met quite a few people that I personally know who now live in D.C and Atlanta and only go to Pittsburgh to visit and have vowed never to return to live
Tend to agree with your post. At one time the Hill District during the Crawford Grille days was no doubt where well-to-do blacks lived. Then they got stupid and went to the 'burbs, kidding. But I can't think of any specific area in the City that has a ton of black professionals.
Tend to agree with your post. At one time the Hill District during the Crawford Grille days was no doubt where well-to-do blacks lived. Then they got stupid and went to the 'burbs, kidding. But I can't think of any specific area in the City that has a ton of black professionals.
Most of my family (the older folks) were born, raised and died in Pittsburgh. I remember hearing them telling me the way things use to be there. Blacks were concentrated in New Kennsington, Garfield and the Hill. The Hill being the "Hotspot" for years until two events happened, the death of MLK which sparked riots across the country and the building of the Civic Arena. Hundreds of blacks were relocated throughout the city, some in places that they were not welcomed. Even today the blacks that have lived on the Hill for decades did not want to leave but because of Emmient domain many were forced out of their homes. I know that the projects were only suppose to be temporary, but I grew up with people that for generations called them home and looked after each other. Living in an intact family in our own house I thought that type of thinking was backwards, but after talking to some of the older people that had no where else to go I started to understand where they were coming from.
But I can't think of any specific area in the City that has a ton of black professionals.
I will do a map of safe diverse-majority black middle class neighborhoods (or portions of neighborhoods for that matter). I can think of ten off of the top of my head in the City limits alone (so that excludes the Eastern Suburbs).
Pittsburgh will never compete with the "New Great Migration" areas for African Americans - DC, Atlanta, and to a lesser extent Dallas. We should be able to compete with places like Cleveland, Baltimore, or Philly - cities which in some ways have worse troubles than Pittsburgh, but all of which have middle-class black areas in the city and/or suburbs I can name off the top of my head. From what I have read, even cities like Seattle and Denver - which historically have had no black neighborhoods - have managed to attract and retain a fair number of black professionals in recent years.
Don't you mean the reverse migration? Blacks are starting to move southward now for whatever reason. The Great Black Migration did porvide the Pittburgh area with a fair amount of blacks because of the steel mills, they were just segregated to certain areas.
I will do a map of safe diverse-majority black middle class neighborhoods (or portions of neighborhoods for that matter). I can think of ten off of the top of my head in the City limits alone (so that excludes the Eastern Suburbs).
I think what he meant was black middle class neighborhoods and not neighborhoods that blacks just happen to live in.
Where would you say it would be? Manchester undoubtedly has the highest presence of the black middle class right now, but it's gotten to be one of the more expensive neighborhoods in Pittsburgh. I can see arguments for Sugar Top as well, which is now safe, but remains in decline because no one is moving in as the elderly black residents move out. Both seem most saddled by a lack of any commercial district though - a focal neighborhood needs more than houses and some churches.
From the limited information that I have gotten, Manchester is starting to be up and coming. Alot of gaymen are moving into the Mexican War street areas as well. As far as Sugartop is concern black profesionals use to dominate the area in the early 70's and most have long moved out or passed away. Many of the blacks from the lower Hill have moved up there and it is an uphill battle trying to get some of them to act right
..."Many of the blacks from the lower Hill have moved up there and it is an uphill battle trying to get some of them to act right"
Are your referring to members of the SuggaTop Mob wannabee group as the population that needs to act right? Its sad that even in more stable black neighborhoods youth claim gang affiliation, and Upper Hill isn't the only wannabee hood... Observatory Hill, Crestas Terrace, North Versailles; Laketon Heights, Penn Hills & Chartiers City all have hybrid groups, shoot even Windgap had a hybrid gang at one point (I assume the rough necks have of Upper Hill had to affiliate with the rest of the Hill in order to stay safe, and thats probably why other stable black neighborhoods near the hood have hybrid gangs). Most recently Lincoln Park/Eastwood/Nadine, Penn Hills; Upper Lincon, Lincoln-Lemington & Princeton Park, Wilkinsburg fell due to wannabee thugs/relocated gangbangers, which turned into middle class flight, and they're now all in a state of major decline. Sad stuff...
To related this to the topic Upper Lincoln had 3homicides, Princeton Park had a double homicide, and Lincoln Park/Eastwood/Nadine, Penn Hills had 3 (including a double homicide)...
A lot of black professionals try to leave the hood though to tell the truth, there are a fare amount of lower-middle class professionals living in the hood... East Hills (Hevenhill Street & the whole section south of the park East Hills), Lincoln-Lemington (Broadcrest Drive), Garfield (Sullivan Street), Homewood South (Tachoma Street), Central Wilkinsburg (scattered), Middle Hill (Middetown Square & Francis Court), Fairywood (Mazette Place) Perry Hilltop (scattered), Beltzhoover (scattered) & Rankin (Kenmar @ 4th Ave) all have well kept streets/tiny sections filled with lower-middle class blacks...
Last edited by Uptown kid; 02-02-2013 at 11:26 PM..
Sorry, I didn't mean to try and be off topic with posting about legalization of drugs or offend anyone by pretending to have some sort of unique but irrelevant insight. I meant it as a serious way to try and reduce incredibly high incarceration rates and all the attendant familial stresses associated with drawn out involvement in a highly punitive legal system and employment related record checks. Also, as a way to defuse conflicts centered around an underground trade in illegal drugs that so often leads to violence and fear/villainization of police and legal system that is out to suppress that trade. Of course, that's just one issue in a constellation of important factors, and I guess that's just my dumb opinion.
On the other hand, having black middle class enclaves is great, but does that have much to do with overall murder rates, which is what this thread was initially about? Cities that have well established black middle class neighborhoods don't necessarily have less total violent crime than other cities, because middle class areas - whatever the ethnic composition - are not (typically) where persistent violent crime occurs. The cities mentioned here as having more prevalent middle and professional classes than Pittsburgh don't have murder rates that are any lower, and as often as not are higher. The presence of black middle class neighborhoods doesn't seem to be a significant factor regarding a city's overall murder rate (ostensibly because the highest incidence of murder doesn't happen in middle income communities).
However, I think my initial point is relevant even if the conversation shifts away from incidents of overall murder numbers to the existence of black middle class neighborhoods, and especially neighborhoods that may be lower-middle income or have a nascent professional tradition. This is because there is a greater likelihood that residents there have active family relationships with those still in long-term poverty or criminal activity than in corresponding white working class or middle income communities, and that link is a destabilizing factor. And one way to address that factor is to legalize drugs, which would reduce the potency of a gang-like, criminal culture at war with the law and struggling to settle internal conflicts often fueled by drug-related criminal activity and mindset.
All that being said, though, these murder numbers, while still high for a country like the U.S. should be, aren't as bad as they were in the 1980s and early 1990s, so some things must be right. But not enough.
[quote=Uptown kid;28069390]Are your referring to members of the SuggaTop Mob wannabee group as the population that needs to act right? Its sad that even in more stable black neighborhoods youth claim gang affiliation, and Upper Hill isn't the only wannabee hood... Observatory Hill, Crestas Terrace, North Versailles; Laketon Heights, Penn Hills & Chartiers City all have hybrid groups, shoot even Windgap had a hybrid gang at one point (I assume the rough necks have of Upper Hill had to affiliate with the rest of the Hill in order to stay safe, and thats probably why other stable black neighborhoods near the hood have hybrid gangs). Most recently Lincoln Park/Eastwood/Nadine, Penn Hills; Upper Lincon, Lincoln-Lemington & Princeton Park, Wilkinsburg fell due to wannabee thugs/relocated gangbangers, which turned into middle class flight, and they're now all in a state of major decline. Sad stuff...
To related this to the topic Upper Lincoln had 3homicides, Princeton Park had a double homicide, and Lincoln Park/Eastwood/Nadine, Penn Hills had 3 (including a double homicide)...
I don't know about about the affiliation with the rest of the Hill, but I do know that lower and middle Hiddle Hill have nothing to do with what goes on with Sugartop. From what I know is that many of the lil hoods up there are transplants from other places and many of the regular folks came from other parts of the Hill. The one thing about the Hill which is different from other drug spots in the city, they are not as territorial except in small pockets like Bentley Drive. For the most part I have seen people from other parts of the city sell their products on the Hill and no one bothered them as long as they knew someone there. Here is another tibit that many people don't know, almost all of the murders that have occurred on the Hill in the last couple of years involved people who don't live there and had a beef with someone who did. I'm trying to think of an incident that involved two people from the Hill that ended up in one of them getting killed. Of course I'm considered to be an " old head" but the facts remain the same.
Hey green_mariner, I agree completely, especially with your last statement. We simply, and shamefully, do not have a strong, immediately apparent, black middle class. I really hope that Pittsburgh begins to break the cycle to which eschaton and others have spoken and develop one in the near future. It's crucial to the development of our city, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
I do feel that black folks can prosper in our city these days, and, as a young person, I have some peers who reinforce this belief. However, if I was a black person taking a look at our demographic trends while weighing a decision to move here or elsewhere, I might very well move elsewhere. That needs to change.
Lack of a strong middle class is one thing that is problematic for Pittsburgh's Black community. The situation is that of the educated, the talented, the professional, and middle class Black residents are leaving Pittsburgh. The question is this: How to encourage Black people who are educated, talented, and professionals to stay in Pittsburgh?
I'm sure a Black person could start his own her own business. I'm sure if I have the know-how(and a lender who would take a risk on me) to start a business, I could.
As for the demographic trend, and moving elsewhere, I think this is what would get to me. I would be asking "why are Black people leaving Pittsburgh"? I would have to ask because I am Black, and I would have to wonder about things myself.
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black profesionals use to dominate the area in the early 70's and most have long moved out or passed away. Many of the blacks from the lower Hill have moved up there and it is an uphill battle trying to get some of them to act right
