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Penn Hills has been experiencing white flight, and the school system is suffering as a result of gang related type problems. However, Ken_B doesn't have children (who will be attending in Pittsburgh to the best of my knowledge), and the area he's considering is the better side of Penn Hills where properties haven't become run down. I can tell from that picture that the neighborhood he is considering is definitely a solid middle class/working class neighborhood.
The racial issue in Penn Hills is slightly different because the spill over is coming from dangerous city neighborhoods. Shaler is starting to have an increase in the black population, but Shaler isn't experiencing white flight because the minorities who are moving into Shaler aren't bringing an increase in crime, etc. Whereas, the areas of Penn Hills closer to Wilkinsburg are definitely experiencing higher crime and gang problems because the population spillover is coming from the type of city neighborhood with those problems.
If you're not worried about school districts, I'd say snatch up something that cheap if you're a do-it-yourself kind of guy.
I think the key phrase here is "if you're not worried about school districts". I think you SHOULD be worried about the Penn Hills school district -- it's the reason why there are so many unsold homes in Penn Hills.
As a resident of Penn Hills, I can absolutely confirm that Penn Hills is in decline. Truth be told, if someone GAVE me a house in Penn Hills, I'd put it up for sale immediately, and use the money to buy elsewhere.
It's interesting that the house you asked about is right next to Plum Borough. If you're interested in buying that far out, go a half mile further and buy in the Plum Borough School District. Plum's schools are that much better.
The following Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article is about the Penn Hills School District. The headline states that "Penn Hills meets PSSA standard", but doesn't include this key word: "BARELY".
Penn Hills meets PSSA standard
Thursday, August 24, 2006
By Judy Laurinatis, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Penn Hills School District officials said this week they were heartened by preliminary 2005-06 Pennsylvania System of School Assessment scores. Results showed that for the second year in a row, Penn Hills has made Adequate Yearly Progress districtwide, with math and reading proficiency scores up for those tested.
But they also said the methods used to boost learning at Penn Hebron Academy may need to be used at other elementary schools where scores for subgroups declined. Secondary scores in math remain down.
Districtwide, 49.1 percent of third-, fifth-, eighth- and 11th-grade pupils who took the PSSA test last school year scored proficient or above in math. That score is 0.7 percentage points higher than last year's cumulative score and 4.1 percentage points above the No Child Left Behind threshold of 45 percent districtwide proficiency.
Reading scores were better. Nearly 61 percent of all pupils scored proficient or above, 7.5 percentage points better than last year and 6.9 points higher than the NCLB threshold of 54 percent.
Because Penn Hills made Adequate Yearly Progress two years in a row, it's off any warning lists.
Penn Hebron Academy, which will begin its third year as an academic academy with specialized curriculum, strict dress code and intensive home/school contact, made AYP for 2005-2006. It was on the school improvement list last year and will need to make AYP this school year to be removed from a warning list.
Third-grade math scores at Penn Hebron remained unchanged at 54 percent proficient or above from the 2004-05 to last school year, third-grade reading and fifth-grade math scores dropped a few percentage points but remained above proficient.
Fifth-grade reading scores rose dramatically from 36 percent proficient in 2005 to 50.7 percent for 2006.
The same couldn't be said for several other elementary schools.
William Penn Elementary scores in math and reading for third- and fifth-graders declined. Shenandoah and Dible were placed on warning lists because several subgroups, economically disadvantaged at Shenandoah and black and economically disadvantaged at Dible, failed to reach proficiency in reading.
A subgroup includes 40 or more pupils in one class or building who are a racial or ethnic minority, take special education classes or are low income, using free or reduced-price lunches as a gauge.
Scores for William Penn third-graders in reading and math remained high, with 74 percent scoring proficient or above in math and 69 percent in reading. Those scores were down 10 and 5 percentage points respectively.
It was the fifth-grade scores that showed dramatic decreases. Only 38.9 percent of fifth-graders scored proficient in math, down 21.4 percentage points from the previous year, and nearly 53 percent scored proficient or above in reading, down from 75.5 percent proficient or above last year.
Dible fifth-graders also showed declines in math, down 23 percentage points, from 78 percent to 54.8 percent, and reading, from nearly 64 percent proficient or above in 2005 to 48.8 percent in 2006.
Fifth-graders at Shenandoah also scored lower this year than last with math scores down from a high of 70 percent in 2005 to nearly 53 percent last school year and reading scores down from nearly 59 percent proficient in 2005 to 43.4 percent the past school year.
Superintendent Dr. Patricia Gennari said the successful methods used at Penn Hebron may need to be used at the other schools.
While Linton Middle School math and reading scores for eighth-graders were up overall, that school and the high school were placed on Corrective Action I lists for various subgroups.
At Linton, math scores were up 0.3 percentage points, from 43.8 percent proficient or above in 2005 to 44.1 percent last school year. Reading scores for the same grade also were up, by more than 10 percentage points, from 48.2 percent to 58.6 percent.
High school scores were up, too, with 11th-grade reading scores up from 52.8 percent to 67 percent, a 14 percentage-point increase.
High school math scores were higher, too, but remain well below NCLB standards.
Some 36.8 percent of 11th-graders scored proficient or above last school year, 1.6 percentage points higher than 2005, when 35.2 percent scored proficient.
Reading scores were much better, with 67 percent of 11th-graders scoring proficient, up 14 points from 2005 scores of 52.8 percent.
It so true. It doesn't matter if you don't have kids and never plan to, one day you will wanna sell that house and school districts can amke or brake your property value. I have said a million times when looking around Pgh real estate, "If only I could pick it up and move it". You see, you can around hear. Alot of houses, including my own, are built on piers, There is no such thing as a basement in La or for that matter a grave. Nothing goes in this swampy ground. Just last month, a guy moved an amazing antebellum home from the Garden District in New Orleans, acroos the Causeway on Lake Ponchatrain (22 miles) and settled it on a high dollar lot on teh Mandeville Lakefront. And the value of the house doubled!!
thanks everyone for their honesty - while it's true I don't have children, I wouldn't want to invest in an area that has a higher crime rate moving in (regardless of race).
I had a feeling this was to good to be true - thus the question that started this thread.
I had a feeling this was to good to be true - thus the question that started this thread.
My gawd, I'm glad I found this site!
Well that's not necessarily true!! Like most have said, it depends very much on which side you are on. Hopes said that side of Penn Hills where that home is was an okay part.
thanks everyone for their honesty - while it's true I don't have children, I wouldn't want to invest in an area that has a higher rate of crime moving in (regardless of race).
I had a feeling this was to good to be true - thus the question that started this thread.
My gawd, I'm glad I found this site!
Me too. Not only has it been priceless for the info but I feel like I already have friends moving in!! YAY!
Well that's not necessarily true!! Like most have said, it depends very much on which side you are on. Hopes said that side of Penn Hills where that home is was an okay part.
I understand that and your advice/opinion is greatly valued as well Boylocke!
Once I secure a 12 month rental I will have the oppurtunity to have a better look at all these areas. I look I will.
Ken, have you been to the Real Estate Assesment page on the Allegheny County Web site?
Via that site, I looked at some of the houses on Cypress Hill Drive in Penn Hills, where the house that piqued your interest is located. The assessed value for similar houses on that street is is $105,000-$112,000 range -- more than the $73,000 price tag on the house that you're interested in.
If you have the actual street address, you can get additional information about that house -- or any house in Allegheny County that you're interested in.
And, by the way, I would recommend these East Suburbs area school districts, in this order: Plum, Riverview and Gateway.
Once I secure a 12 month rental I will have the oppurtunity to have a better look at all these areas. I look I will.
Yeah that's the most important thing. You just have to go out and look! We can give advice, but I'd hate you for to make a decision about something when really, if you don't look, you might not realize what you're passing up. Then again, you might look and run the other way! At least you'll know!
Can someone fill me in on Penn Hills, east of downtown. I'm seeing home prices there a bit to good to be true. Thanks.
Was born and raised in Penn Hills.. just watch out for the taxes..
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