Potential Move to Pittsburgh - Have a Few Questions (Philadelphia: condo, crime)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Lobick

As a War Streets resident I can co-sign the initial part of this statement but am not really sure what SCR means by the last part. I guess there are no "dedicated" gay bars in the area, but that's a dying business model anyway.

Generally speaking "gay bars" aren't a dying business model. I know if I wanted to have a couple of drinks to gather up the "liquid courage" to buy another male a drink, get to know them, and potentially ask them out I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so in an environment where the majority of the males might be heterosexual. I've had women hit on me before, and while I personally was flattered I know from personal experience that if you are a gay male making a pass at a straight male, they don't exactly take it as being a "compliment", if you catch my drift. While I'm all for integrating the heterosexual and non-heterosexual segments of our society as much as possible having a "gay bar" is indeed still very crucial for gay singles to meet in an environment where they know that 95% of the males around them are in the same boat and won't lash out at them for "mistaking" them for being non-heterosexual.

It's not really being "discriminatory". Straight males can and do go to 5801 in Shadyside, I'm sure, when they are dragged by their girlfriends. However, they go there with the understanding that they may very well end up being the recipient of glances or passes being made at them by other males. For this reason gay bars sort of segregate themselves informally because most heterosexual males won't want to step foot in one. I don't think most heterosexual males would want to go to a place like Jack's in the South Side or Gooski's in Polish Hill trying to score chicks and instead have gay guys ogling them.

Perhaps straight guys in Pittsburgh don't mind it when gay guys hit on them, but at least in my native Scranton/Wilkes-Barre straight guys would take it as a personal affront that someone would dare to question their "masculinity" by presuming they might be at least bisexual. That is why most of us stick to "gay bars" when we're single so we don't run into those sorts of conflicts.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Generally speaking "gay bars" aren't a dying business model. I know if I wanted to have a couple of drinks to gather up the "liquid courage" to buy another male a drink, get to know them, and potentially ask them out I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so in an environment where the majority of the males might be heterosexual. I've had women hit on me before, and while I personally was flattered I know from personal experience that if you are a gay male making a pass at a straight male, they don't exactly take it as being a "compliment", if you catch my drift. While I'm all for integrating the heterosexual and non-heterosexual segments of our society as much as possible having a "gay bar" is indeed still very crucial for gay singles to meet in an environment where they know that 95% of the males around them are in the same boat and won't lash out at them for "mistaking" them for being non-heterosexual.

It's not really being "discriminatory". Straight males can and do go to 5801 in Shadyside, I'm sure, when they are dragged by their girlfriends. However, they go there with the understanding that they may very well end up being the recipient of glances or passes being made at them by other males. For this reason gay bars sort of segregate themselves informally because most heterosexual males won't want to step foot in one. I don't think most heterosexual males would want to go to a place like Jack's in the South Side or Gooski's in Polish Hill trying to score chicks and instead have gay guys ogling them.

Perhaps straight guys in Pittsburgh don't mind it when gay guys hit on them, but at least in my native Scranton/Wilkes-Barre straight guys would take it as a personal affront that someone would dare to question their "masculinity" by presuming they might be at least bisexual. That is why most of us stick to "gay bars" when we're single so we don't run into those sorts of conflicts.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll attempt to be brief. Your reply suggests that for you, the gay bar is not a declining business model. You, and your group of friends still would feel more comfortable there, fine. My point was, that the raw number of "gay" bars has been declining in the majority of cities since the early 90s, that's all. Acceptance and assimilation have lead to their utility being diminished. Andrew Sullivan has written extensively on the "Decline of Gay Culture" as a distinctive subset from the culture writ large.

In addition, I'd note that you appear to have a somewhat dim view of the heterosexual male in Pittsburgh and their tolerance for gay men among them.

[BrianTH]

I agree the walking proximity to Downtown, the Cultural District, and the North Side's own amenities is more than enough reason to at least check out the North Side as an option. And there are tons of quick buses which allow you to either walk or take a bus depending on the weather and such.

[gg]

Oh please! The $350K-$500K price range and you want them to live in the Mexican War Streets? STOP IT! Shadyside is a much better place to live with Walnut and Ellsworth. Seriously, what are you going to tell me compares to that in the North Side?????? The dump of a Giant Eagle next to the old Sunoco? FFS, you have to be kidding. These people are not in the under 200K price range. They can afford Shadyside. I realize that some people in the Mexican War Streets want them to move there, but I cannot let if fly as a real estate mogul for many years. Put your money into an area that is and has been a winner for a very long time. You can afford to buy in an established place. Goodness!

[jay5835]

I agree with h_ on Shadyside/Squirrel Hill/East End vs. Mexican War Streets. But you should look for yourselves.

Here's what trulia shows within a mile of zipcode 15232 (Shadyside), from $350,000 to $500,000: 15232 Real Estate & 15232 Homes For Sale — Trulia.com

Here's the same for Squirrel Hill, i.e., within a mile of 15217: 15217 Real Estate & 15217 Homes For Sale — Trulia.com

Here's the 15212 zipcode for $100,000 to $500,000. This includes the Mexican War Streets, but also other neighborhoods. http://www.trulia.com/for_sale/35000...-500000_price/

Let me know if you have any questions.

[BrianTH]

I don't live anywhere near the North Side, but I can still appreciate it.

Oh well--some Pittsburghers just don't get how things are changing in certain neighborhoods and what they offer these days, but that's fine: you can just ignore such dinosaurs.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I don't live anywhere near the North Side, but I can still appreciate it.

I could and would live in the North Side, but I can't afford what the OP states. I love the fact that you could walk downtown. A friend of mine lives in Allegheny West and I park at his house for Steeler games and walk to Heinz Field. That is GREAT!!! It is a great area for certain events. There are only 8 home Steeler games though. Lots of Pirate games and those events are in walking distance from the War Streets. That is huge! On the other hand daily life in Shadyside is really nice. So many places to go to eat, or shop. It is really vibrant outside of sports. I think if the North Side had more shopping in walking distance it would be better. Shopping in the Strip is great, but are you could to walk or bike there and carry groceries home?

Don't get me wrong, the North Side is great and it is getting better every year. There WILL be better shopping there. There has to be. The homes on Lincoln and Beach are amazing. Some of the War Street homes are really nice as well. Manchester has great places as well. Heck you can live on Perrysville or Clayton and have a view of the city that is outstanding. Federal is so much nicer than it was 10 years ago. The place is kicking! On the other hand $350-$500. Why wait? Move to a kickin area NOW!

[Hopes]

SteelCityRising & Lobick,

Instead of debating whether gay bars are an important/becoming a less important factor when gays select a neighborhood to live, I recommend asking the OP if the quantity of gay bars in a neighborhood is an important criteria for him/her and his/her partner.

[BrianTH]

I might note that the OP stated: "We prefer living in the city to the suburbs, and like to be close to cultural activities, shopping, theaters, restaurants, and nightlife."

In addition to the sports stadiums on the North Side there are also a few great museums, and then you have all the amenities of the Cultural District within walking distance. Shadyside might have an edge in terms of shopping, restaurants, and nightlife (although that has gotten a lot closer if you include the Cultural District), but I think given that list of preferred amenities it is really a very close call.

Finally, 350-500K could potentially buy you a lot more on the North Side than in Shadyside in terms of house. So with both neighborhoods having their pluses, I'd strongly urge at least looking at both (plus Downtown and a few other places).

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by Hopes

SteelCityRising & Lobick,

Instead of debating whether gay bars are an important/becoming a less important factor when gays select a neighborhood to live, I recommend asking the OP if the quantity of gay bars in a neighborhood is an important criteria for him/her and his/her partner.

I agree, it was admittedly tangential and that's why I tried not to dwell. I suspect that it's probably not a big factor in his decision given the OP's demographic. It was the thought that the War Streets didn't have businesses that "catered" to the LGBT demographic (apparently solely "gay bars" for SCR) whatever that means that I found objectionable and in need of rebuttal.