Phoenix Pain on Main Street (Glendale, Tempe: hotels, school, to live in)

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by joninaz

I'm not even sure people in Metro PHX can define dowtown. For many folks outside the central areas, going to the Clarendon, Durants, 7th Ave/Melrose, Coronado Cafe, George & The Dragon, etc is "going downtown." But others might say downtown's north end is Roosevelt.

I agree, a lot of people call anything in Central Phoenix "downtown".

Downtown is actually defined, but a lot of people don't know exactly what the boundaries are. Hopefully the light rail will help some people define the areas better as station names will be "Downtown Phoenix" "Uptown" and "Midtown".

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I definitely understand what draws you do different places but I can't say I'm attracted by the same things. As weird as it sounds, I actually "like" the relatively difficult parking downtown, and driving around a couple times to find a parallel parking spot. I can't stand seas of parking lots that surround most places like Westgate and other plazas...it just feels like a big void when I get out of the car. I like being surrounded by buildings on all sides I guess.

Yes, this is an important point. Immense oceans of surface parking are what kill places like Westgate, Desert Ridge, and Tempe Marketplace for me. These parking lots take up huge amounts of space, absorb a great deal of heat, and make the whole environment unpleasant. I'd much rather parallel park on the street or take light rail into an urban center that is not dominated by surface parking. Garages are fine for those willing to pay, but otherwise there's an upside to keeping parking limited.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Again, a lot is to blame I think on the marketing they have been doing. You mentioned the sandwich shop that closes (probably Sticklers), but within 1/2 mile there areother options like Sonoma Grill and Hanny's that now opened. Within the whole downtown area, I guarantee that there are probably twice the amount of restaurants you will find at Westgate...though you may need to walk a little bit more or grab the train for a stop or two.

The west end of Downtown definitely needs more restaurants. The best places to eat are generally to the east and to the north along Roosevelt, Garlfield, Pierce, etc.

One nice thing about Downtown's neglect is that the chain restaurants have largely ignored Downtown. Those independent restaurants that have opened recently -- places like Sens, the Breadfruit, Hanny's, Thai Elephant, etc. -- are more interesting because they are more uniquie, more one-of-a-kind. Places like Westgate or Desert Ridge give me the same chains that exist coast to coast. Downtown gives me more unique experiences.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Yes, this is an important point. Immense oceans of surface parking are what kill places like Westgate, Desert Ridge, and Tempe Marketplace for me. These parking lots take up huge amounts of space, absorb a great deal of heat, and make the whole environment unpleasant. I'd much rather parallel park on the street or take light rail into an urban center that is not dominated by surface parking. Garages are fine for those willing to pay, but otherwise there's an upside to keeping parking limited.

I will admit that the Tempe Marketplace pleasantly surprised me----------then again: the old adage location, location, location holds true. Its hinterland is huge---------and, the bus/highway connections ain't bad either.

[movin'on]

Wow, I think this sums everything up. There is NOTHING going on here. And I work on Central Ave.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

The recession had little to do with downtown being a ghost town. It always has been; it always will be. Dreamers have been tossing the taxpayers money at this sinkhole for decades. The 19th century model of downtown is dead (or can't make it here). Downtown is a destination - you have to drive there as few live there. Why bother? There are better entertainment options sans homeless and parking hassles in every quadrant. If the recession dooms a few of these taxpayer supported high rises then I say good - the market is at work.

After reading the article, and then immediately seeing your response, I can only conclude that one of the reasons downtown Phoenix has faced pitfalls can be attributed to those like you with negative, counterproductive viewpoints about downtown development. Why bother, you ask? Well, why bother to keep building flat, unattractive, cookie cutter, sprawling developments in the far flung suburbs that have resulted in HIGHER rates of foreclosure than anything downtown??? Look at places like Queen Creek and Maricopa: perfect examples of what helped spur this current recession!

Incidentally, taxpayers didn't support highrise projects, except the Sheraton. Taxes did support other projects, including the light rail. However, taxes have also paid for the wonderful suburban amenities such as new streets, new sidewalks, new widening projects of existing roads, and new public schools (which I have no use for). The recession has indeed doomed many of these sprawling master planned developments in the outer suburban areas ...which I say is good because the market is at work!

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Good question. I think of the new Westgate center. We go there now more frequently. Westgate has those big screen advertising things and banners ala Times Square that give it an exciting feel as soon as you enter. It has a bunch of restaurants and fun bars, shops, a 24 screen movie house all in a walkable cluster with Cabelas - a big tourist draw - across the street. There's people there.

Westgate Center is a project that should have gone downtown, along with the Cards Stadium. These projects were in the planning/development stage in the early 2000s ... which I realize doesn't seem like too long ago, but times were much different just six or seven years ago than they are now. Back then, people still had this fixation on building huge developments way out in the middle of nowhere ... and that's exactly how the area around Westgate Center can be described even now. It's a nice shopping/restaurant/entertainment mecca that is surrounded by many large swaths of vacant land. Also, the fact that it's not centrally located is a drawback for many who live in the central areas or the east Valley. The mere location of Westgate, and Cards/Coyotes arenas tends to SUBTRACT activity from downtown.

But I think you and too many others still have your mind set in the late '90s/early 2000s when the economy & market demands were much different than they are now. Contrary to popular belief, it's no longer considered "cool" to buy a suburban tract home with a sub prime loan, and commute 30 miles to work each way in a massive SUV. The past few years have seen a change in market demands to where more residents & business owners are wanting to be more centrally located. There are lots of factors behind that switch. The problem is that the current economic downturn has put lots of things on hold for a while, regardless of location.

Also, downtown needs to have more than just entertainment ... although that would be a great addition. It needs reputable CORPORATIONS with competitive wages to base their national & regional HQs. Of course, for that to happen, Phoenix would need to be more marketable for those kinds of companies to locate here. Ill leave it up to you at this point to provide some guesses as to WHY the Phoenix metro area isn't a very attractive spot for large corporations or higher wages.

[sheena]

Originally Posted by TerryTurtle27

Interesting article about Phoenix.

Pain on Main Street: Timing proves bad for Phoenix - USATODAY.com

Oh blah blah blah bull donkey!

[sheena]

Originally Posted by movin'on

Wow, I think this sums everything up. There is NOTHING going on here. And I work on Central Ave.

Never was.

[Valley Native]

How does anybody expect to encourage development in the downtown area & along Central Avenue with some of these attitudes? I keep reading these opinions that downtown Phoenix is a "sinkhole", or that Phoenix was never meant to have a tall downtown area, etc. At one time, many decades ago, all of Phoenix's activity centered in the downtown area, and it was a very BUSTLING downtown area. This was even during the era when Phoenix was a small city. These developers who have grand ideas about improving downtown Phoenix are big thinkers ... and they're tyring to lift the central core out of the "sinkhole" (so to speak). They look at the big picture & try to make things possible. Some of you, however, are extremely negative, and have tunnel vision. Those of you in that category would be the ones who say, "Phoenix is just fine without all the highrises", "light rail was forced on us", "nobody wants to go downtown", etc.

Even the USA Today article which the original poster presented has a section for opinions ... and some of those opinions are quite negative as well:
* "Phoenix? Yuck!"
* "I lived in the Phoenix metro area for seven years...sorry, it is a dump. Boring, no culture, no theme parks, zoo and museums stink...had to go to Calif for culture. Dry, dusty, dull --- the three big D's. Jobs low paying. Liked the mountains, the ride to the northern part of the state, wow, big deal."
* "Phoenix is a bland dump, like many cities in the west."

These types of comments on that site, as well as on this site, certainly don't help things improve any!

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by MaxPower123

We have a rotating restaurant?!?!

hahaha, that's what i said.