07-24-2023, 10:44 AM
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Yes. Phoenix has a long history of build first, (try to) fix it later. Except there's no solution because there's no will.
That's why Rio Verde is in deep trouble. It's unconscionable. Beautiful homes, idyllic area, value has plummeted. Ask me if the developers care. They probably live a few miles away in Fountain Hills. No worries there.
07-24-2023, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
thrillobyte
The question would then become: which are you better off in
1. 95F in Florida which has a heat index of 105
2. 118F in Phoenix
Medical says that any extended time outdoors in weather above a wet bulb of 96 spells death because the body cannot cool off. But being out in 118 for any extended period pretty much fries the organs, doesn't it? I mean out here in the SFV a postwoman died in her USPS vehicle in 117F in Woodland Hills a few years ago.
Try 95+ with a heat index of 115 (
https://www.pnj.com/story/weather/20...w/70360335007/ ), which has occured this summer in Florida. Also PHX has hit 118 a grand total of 4 times this entire summer, which as know is breaking all kinds of records. I'd argue that the two really don't feel all that different it would be a matter of enjoying extreme humidity levels, dew points in the mid 70s versus a drier heat here.
Also PHX has the benefit of being nearby a high country, where a relatively short drive offers a break from the heat. Hell, even within the metro the high temps can vary quite a bit, especially the low temperatures.
Not sure what you mean about "fries the organs" but I do know that bodies natural heat mitigation basically worthless in humid environments. "“Being able to sweat is a bit of a superpower — unless it’s very humid, and then the sweating mechanism doesn’t work, because the sweat doesn’t go anywhere. It just builds up on the skin,” he said."
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...ally-rcna92346
07-25-2023, 09:38 AM
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Well our High Country isn't doing so well either. My FIL has been saying his weather station in Payson has been registering 100°+ this week. Of course they cool off at night but that is a bit warm for up there.
07-25-2023, 10:34 AM
Location: Northern Virginia
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July 1931 had 8 days with 110+ and 27 days with 105+ in Phoenix. Back then Phoenix was a small city with near 50,000 inhabitants. Places like Mesa and Scottsdale were just small rural communities. But of course those people had to deal with that hot, arid climate without modern A/C at home. At-home A/C units only became common in the 1950s/60s.
Phoenix has exploded in population since then and it wouldn't have been possible without A/C as most of the new arrivals from the East and North probably wouldn't have stayed without it. Stretches of 110+ weather were common even back then, so everything and everyone in the area had to be prepared to deal with that. If your A/C broke and you had no way of fixing it then you would have been screwed in the last 10 days of July 1972 as well
So the question Phoenix has to ask itself isn't whether one can cope with a 110 degree heat, because if not then the city could never have existed to begin with, but whether it makes a difference of whether you have 110+ degrees for a week here or there like it was commonplace in the past - or for weeks on end as it appears to becoming more common. And does it make a significant difference if the UHI keeps temps from going down into the mid 80s at night and instead has them stay in the 90s?
07-25-2023, 11:40 AM
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Prior to the A/C being used...it was commonplace from 1933 and on for homes in
Arizona to use swamp coolers
Air Conditioning was too impractical until the 1960s due to the size and cost of a unit although some businesses were installing them as early as 1929 (Hotel Westward Ho was the first in Phoenix). Once window units and more reasonable residential units became available, they became commonplace.
Even now, some homes are built with split units, a swamp cooler to use prior to the humidity spike with summer thunderstorms, and an A/C unit to use during high humidity. Swamp Coolers use a lot less energy than an A/C unit does so it makes sense and cuts down on electricity costs.
FWIW...We are now on Day 25 with 4 more days in the forecast of 110°+.
Last edited by KurtAZ; 07-25-2023 at 11:48 AM ..
07-25-2023, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
KurtAZ
Well our High Country isn't doing so well either. My FIL has been saying his weather station in Payson has been registering 100°+ this week. Of course they cool off at night but that is a bit warm for up there.
FWIW Payson has hit 100 on a total of 3 days so far this month.
07-25-2023, 12:29 PM
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
locolife
FWIW Payson has hit 100 on a total of 3 days so far this month.
Oh that is a great subject of debate with my FIL. He seems to believe (and will tell you ad nauseum) that his weather station set up is more accurate than the NWS's official temperature readings in Payson. Apparently one side of town is always hotter or colder by 10° and he is always right. I mean...you can drive across town in 5 minutes but the airport and the Movie Theatre are apparently in different weather zones. I am guessing there is an invisible wall that stops heat seeping up from the Valley along Longhorn/260.
07-25-2023, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
KurtAZ
Oh that is a great subject of debate with my FIL. He seems to believe (and will tell you ad nauseum) that his weather station set up is more accurate than the NWS's official temperature readings in Payson. Apparently one side of town is always hotter or colder by 10° and he is always right. I mean...you can drive across town in 5 minutes but the airport and the Movie Theatre are apparently in different weather zones. I am guessing there is an invisible wall that stops heat seeping up from the Valley along Longhorn/260.
Possibly, Sky Harbor is in one of the hottest locations you can take temperatures from in the valley. Especially the low temps, one can easily experience 10 degree or more differences in Phoenix based on where you live. Here it's obviously the UHI and elevation differences, I don't know Payson well enough to say what may cause the variation there but that's the official reading. They may get a lower reading at their official weather station than some but Phoenix gets a higher reading than most. Does it really matter that much? Doubt it. We all know they're both hotter than historical but if you hangout at airports in both locations you know what you'll have experienced.
07-25-2023, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Veritas Vincit
July 1931 had 8 days with 110+ and 27 days with 105+ in Phoenix. Back then Phoenix was a small city with near 50,000 inhabitants. Places like Mesa and Scottsdale were just small rural communities. But of course those people had to deal with that hot, arid climate without modern A/C at home. At-home A/C units only became common in the 1950s/60s.
Phoenix has exploded in population since then and it wouldn't have been possible without A/C as most of the new arrivals from the East and North probably wouldn't have stayed without it. Stretches of 110+ weather were common even back then, so everything and everyone in the area had to be prepared to deal with that. If your A/C broke and you had no way of fixing it then you would have been screwed in the last 10 days of July 1972 as well
So the question Phoenix has to ask itself isn't whether one can cope with a 110 degree heat, because if not then the city could never have existed to begin with, but whether it makes a difference of whether you have 110+ degrees for a week here or there like it was commonplace in the past - or for weeks on end as it appears to becoming more common. And does it make a significant difference if the UHI keeps temps from going down into the mid 80s at night and instead has them stay in the 90s?
The number of 110 days has been higher for the last 20-30 years and the UHI has been studied at length, here and elsewhere. What's your point in questions to ask? Whether it will keep growing? If that's the question then the answer is pretty clearly yes at this point.
People don't move here for the summer weather.
07-25-2023, 02:22 PM
Location: Northern Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
locolife
The number of 110 days has been higher for the last 20-30 years and the UHI has been studied at length, here and elsewhere. What's your point in questions to ask? Whether it will keep growing? If that's the question then the answer is pretty clearly yes at this point.
People don't move here for the summer weather.
It's the same questions you have to ask with every change both as an individual and as an organization - how does this change affect me and do I need to make an adjustment?
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)