Does this fit in philosophy forum or else where? (humans, nature, society)

[LoveWisdom]

I can't determine. So for now, I'll post it here. Just sharing some observations about stuff.

Talk about the two parts of us, the consciousness and the other part, and how they work.

[SIZE=3]Christians believe that a person has two parts: a spirit and a flesh. It's not exactly clear what each is, but the idea is that spirit wants to do good (and wants to obey God's law) and the flesh always fights against it and wants to do bad. So, per Paul of the Bible, the flesh wins and Paul (as he wrote) ends up doing things he doesn't want to do. (Rom 7:15-18) Paul says that it's the flesh (or the sin which lives in him) that makes him do the bad. (Rom 7:17)

I also believe that there are two parts and that they fight each other, but I call them by different names: consciousness and the auto pilot robotic part. Humans are too complex to be seen as something just from one perspective. But partly, in some sense, a person could be compared to a computer program. Afterall, we do have that process at work within us besides the other processes. A program is a step by step instructions of how one should behave in which situation. Genes have the instructions for behavior of each person. Plus, circumstances/teachings/beliefs rewrite the code. So the code/ the instructions of how one should act in which situation could be changed. We say it like this: this person needs to be reprogrammed.

So for example, if you were programmed to put your SELF first always, you will do so when the situation arises. When the time comes to share your food with others you will NOT share because sharing would mean you are not putting your SELF first and it means that you're not acting according to your program's instructions. Acting according to your programming, according to the instructions encoded in you, is called living on autopilot, letting your robot take over. When you act on instinct (like animals do), you are letting your robot live your life. When you act without thinking, you let your robot part live your life. It's like you fall asleep and it just doing stuff for you. It's programmed to do it. You don't need to participate that much. Your computer-like brain calculates the decisions to be made based on logic, past experiences and encoded programming and executes your action whenever it's time for one.

But you have a second part, consciousness. Consciousness is also a program, but a little different one. Consciousness is the one that is integrated with chemicals/emotions/desires. (And here is a guess: a consciousness may be seen as a virtual program, running inside of a computer (aka: the robot program). Consciousness came to be at one time, it emerged. It's like saying that humans created robots and then robots evolved and took over... So it's like the robot program was responsible for creating the virtual program (aka consciousness) and consciousness can now take over some things. Consciousness is the one who observes your robot behavior and evaluates it and decides whether what you did was right or wrong. People did an experiment. They told someone to push a button and recorded the results. And somehow, as a result of this study, people learned that a person pushed the button BEFORE thinking about it. He did it automatically. And AFTER he pushed a button, then he started thinking about pushing the button. So he acted before he knew that he was supposed to push the button. So it's like his robot part knew and did it. But the other part, the consciousness part just watched it happen. So consciousness observes your actions.

Your consciousness can feel happy about your behavior or can feel regret. If it feels regret, it will try to reprogram the robot part. So there are two programs within you. Both have a set of instructions. So when consciousness feels happy about your robot's behavior, it means that you are acting according to the instructions of the robot part of you, and consciousness' set of instructions happened to be the same, in harmony. When consciousness feels regret abut your robot behavior, it means that you are acting according to the robot part's instructions, but consciousness's set of instructions is not the same.

So there are two programs running in you. I am totally guessing on this: The consciousness program is the one that is being programmed by society/teachings/moral code/circumstances/beliefs. A robot program is written in your genes code. When you are born, your two programs are in sync. Then as consciousness learns and evolves her code changes. Then she starts to feel disharmony between what she wants to do and what the body's robot part does. Consciousness program can't do actions. All she can do is program the robot part to do the right kinds of actions. But reprogramming takes time. So lots of the time consciousness just has to sit there and observe its robot's actions and feel regret (while it slowly is reprogramming the robot part).

There is an expression: "my conscience is clear". That means I don't have anything to feel guilty about. That in turns means that your consciousness is agreeing with the actions of your robot. When your "conscience is not clear" that means you are feeling guilty about the actions of your robot. The 2 programs' instructions are in disharmony.

So if you don't like Katie's behavior, you have to reprogram her consciousness program. And then her own consciousness program will reprogram her robot part. That's why they say: "appeal to their conscience". (I assume that consciousness and conscience are related or the same. Conscience means: inner sense of right and wrong. And your consciousness knows what is right and wrong by comparing what's going on to what her program instructions say SHOULD go on). So if you want to change the person, you have to reprogram their consciousness. To reprogram someone's consciousness, you have to teach them what is right and wrong (according to you, because it's all relative). They accept that set of instructions and then try to reprogram their robot, so that the robot can act according to the new set of instructions. Comparing to Christianity, the flesh part is the robot part. The spirit part is the consciousness. And in order to live by the spirit (Gal 5:16) as Paul of the Bible teaches, you have to renew your mind (Eph 4:23) according to the teachings of Christ. In my belief this would mean: you have to reprogram your consciousness according to the teachings so that your robot would do what your consciousness (aka: spirit) wants it to do.

So for example, if you were raised in a family of thieves, they will teach you/program your consciousness to believe that stealing is ok. So you will steal and won't even feel guilty about it. It's ok according to both of your program's instructions. But then you become a Christian and the Bible teaches you that stealing is a sin and God will punish it. So your consciousness program has received a new set of instructions. Now stealing is wrong. But your robot part is still living according to the old set of instructions. So your consciousness will try to reprogram the robot part. But in the mean time (before the reprogramming is complete) it will observe itself steal and feel guilty and regret about that. (and keep asking God for forgiveness) So this is where the battle takes place: your flesh fights against the spirit. Your consciousness is trying to make its robot to behave correctly and there is a fight, resistance from the robot, it's hard to change. This is why Paul said: by my spirit I want to do good, but the sin in me makes me do bad (or my flesh does the bad). So to translate this: our consciousness has received a new set of instructions, heard Jesus' teachings and wants to be like Jesus, but the robot part is still acting out the old set of instructions.

Christianity teaches that all people are sinful. They don't mean that everything is bad in a person. They mean that a person is not perfect in his behavior. And if he breaks only one rule of the law, then he is guilty of breaking the entire law. (James 2:10) And when he breaks the law, he is guilty in God's eyes and deserves punishment. So basically Christians teach that a human cannot be perfectly good. And if he cannot be perfectly good, then he cannot earn reward (heaven). In my belief, people are not perfect also. But there is no god to send them to hell for that, thank goodness. People are not perfect, because they are still babies, they are still growing, they are evolving. They need to be taught the right behavior. And eventually, they will grow up and be better.

Paul of the Bible also expressed that when you act bad, you are considered spiritually immature, a baby. But when you mature, grow up, you will be more like Christ (aka: better behaved). (Eph 4:13-14 and 1Cor 3:1-3 1 Cor13:11)

So our beliefs agree on this point: bad behaving people are considered babies/immature, and when they mature, they will behave better.

People were programmed to grow and evolve and to eventually reach advancement and become good. The design was good. The intention was good. And it will bring good results. But the problem is this: this good design was designed to create good results through evolution. And evolution always involves suffering, change, resistance to the old and the new changes. The idea is: before you reach the blessed states of being good, you will go through growing pains, suffering, evolution. So suffering is an important step stone in getting more evolved. It reminds me of the Christian ideas that "it is given to us to suffer" (1Pet1:6, 4:12,19) here on this earth. And Paul also said that the temporary sufferings here are nothing compared to the eternal glory in heaven. (2Cor 4:17-18) And it's similar in my belief: the suffering in order to evolve is worth it. Because after you evolve and become good, you will have a bright and very long future of good life, resulting from good behavior. So the suffering for 70 years is like a moment in terms of billions of years of good life.

There is also an idea in Christianity about the perfecting of the saints. Christians believe that God will make them good. And in my belief: yes, it will happen, God or no God, people will become good eventually.

Evolution of the people was part of this design. In my belief, it's not possible to make something perfect if you have never done it before. In my belief, the only possible way to do something is to try it, make errors, then learn from your mistakes and then do better and so on. It's like perfecting. Imagine any person on earth trying to build or create something. There are always rough drafts and then the redoing of the thing and doing it better. Well, life on earth is like a rough draft. The kinks need to be worked out. The bugs need to be fixed.

It's hard to describe what evil is exactly. It's also hard to describe what sin means. They say that it's breaking God's law, but it doesn't explain it that much. But most people see "evil" (or bad) and "sin" as something that's harmful to something or someone in some way. Who is good and who is bad? What is good and what is bad? It's all relative. Some people would seem good in certain situations, during certain times and among certain people. And these same people would seem bad to another group, at another time, in another situation. For example, killing usually is considered a bad thing to do. But when people kill during the war, it's considered a good thing to do. So good and bad is really relative and depends on many factors and has its own definition in different societies. Another example, God said in the Christian belief in the old testament: eye for an eye (in other words it's ok to kill someone if they have done something bad to you). But in this era, it's sin to kill someone no matter what. So did God's definition of Good and Bad change? How can it be? We thought that "good" is always good.... But it's not so. So, first of all, it's hard to say who is truly good and truly bad. In fact, most people have a little bit of each in them. And sometimes these things that look "bad" are not actually bad or at least there is no bad intent.

So "good" is when things are done to benefit others. "Bad" is when things are done to harm others. But even this definition is not good enough. Although Bible uses this definition of good and bad. In the Bible, sin means breaking the law. The opposite of sin is fulfilling the law. And here is what Paul said: "Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:10) And Jesus also said that loving God and neighbor is what the law hangs on, the gist of it. Matt 22:37-40, In fact, in Luk 10:27-28 Jesus is saying that if you do this, you will live.

Although no one can love others perfectly. Paul of the Bible expressed the idea that no one can 100% always do good and that's why God saves people by grace, as a gift (Rom 3:23-24, Eph 2:8, James 2:10, Rom 4). The parallel in my belief is this: no one is perfect and therefore people should not be constantly judged and compared to an example of some perfection which does not exist. People should be merciful to each other and accept each others mistakes with grace. We should realize that making mistakes is just a part of the process, part of learning and growing.

Let's take a closer look at how humans act and why they act that way.

So each person comes with a set of instructions inside of them, like the Bible says: the law is written on your heart (Rom 2:15 2Cor3:3). In other words, things written on paper become things written on our hearts (they turn into a set of instructions, a program, which a person then is following). The instructions of their inner program (s) say: do this and this and react this way in this situation and that way in the other situation. If such and such conditions exist, then do the following. The set of instructions instilled into each person come from different sources (genes, teachings, beliefs, events, experiences). And the set of instructions can be modified in each individual person (or is modified throughout time).

When we create a computer program, it seems perfect. (like Windows XP program for example). And in most computers it works perfectly. But in some computers it doesn't work that great. It's the same with people: the same pill can help the majority of people, but can really mess up some other person who is a bit different. So people are very complex machines with all kinds of processes running in them. And these processes have to integrate and work together. And sometimes there are problems and things don't work. For example, there could be a hot tempered gene in one person and it will mess up some of his programming. So the set of instructions will say: you have to be polite to all people. But the hot tempered gene will overwrite them and say: but when someone annoys you, you have to let them have it. So there is a conflict sometimes in the processes and instructions, there is a battle and one of them wins and that's how the person ends up acting.

Some of the instructions are meant for the good, but they turn out bad results in reality. Some of the instructions are meant for the good, but they don't work quite right with another set of instructions just received recently. And so there is a conflict and the person ends up behaving in a strange way or in a bad way.

For example, fear/pain is a good program, it has a good intention, it helps a person to make sure that he survives the longest because fear/pain teaches to stay away from things which would harm the body and shorten your life. Survival of the species is important and so that's why we came with this kind of programming. However, fear or pain gets out of control in some of the bodies and the results are bad. Some people have deceases which make their body hurt too much because something went wrong (out of whack) in their balance of fear/pain programming. Some people have deceases which makes them not feel pain at all and they damage themselves too much. Some people don't feel fear and shorten their lives because they take too many risks. Others feel too much fear and take too little risks, thus end up being called cowards.

So if coward a bad person? I mean they didn't make themselves feel too much fear. And the brave ones didn't make themselves not feel the fear. It just happens. Life makes it happen. But in our society, cowards are looked down upon (as though they have a choice and are choosing to be cowards) and the brave ones are praised (as though they did anything to make themselves brave). Paul of the Bible has understood that no one should have a credit for how they are. They just are. So he said: 1Co 4:7 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? (He was referring to the qualities/abilities of a person I believe).

The right balance of things would make a perfect person. But the balance is always in a state of flux because different things affect it and influence it and change it. So because we are so changeable and every little thing can throw us off balance, it's hard for anyone to be perfect. And besides that (for some reason) things wear out and break. So our bodies have broken things, broken links in the processes, things that wore out, conflicting sets of instructions interfering with each other, and that throws the harmonious integration of processes out of whack. It's not easy being a human and we do the best we can. And we did not have a choice in any of this. We were born, our programming made us who we are now. The teachings we ran into accidentally further changed our programming. The environment we live in further changes are programming. We are pawns of life. We do what it says.

Do people have a choice? Yes and no. Sometimes someone is wanting to stop taking drugs, but can't. Does he really have a choice if he is not able to stop? Some people want to take more vacations but can't because there is not enough money and there is a sick parent to take care of. Does this person have a choice? No. Some people marry bad husbands because they were too blind to see the truth. Did they have a choice? No, because they couldn't see. The choices that we make are constrained by our abilities, fears or lack of them, beliefs and circumstances.

Take a bitter person who doesn't treat others well. Why did he turn out bitter? Because time and time again life hit him hard. When you keep hitting someone, they learn to hit back. It's the way things work. We have logic to our decisions. If someone is hitting you all the time, then you hit back, you think that life must be about hitting. So it's not like you had a choice. You couldn't understand, you couldn't see, and you thought you were supposed to be in this environment where living beings hit each other.

Take a loving person. He/she didn't do anything special to become loving. They must have just been born with good natured genes, maybe they have a good healthy balance of hormones which make people feel happy, and maybe they ran into good people all their life and learned to do good in return.

The loving people are praised and the bitter people are judged. But it's not really their choice to be the way they are. As many people groups there are in the world, so many beliefs and ideas about what is good and what is bad there are. So the best thing to do (like the Bible teaches) is: "Do not judge (Luk 6:37). Be merciful (Luk 6:35-36) Mercy triumphs over judgement (James 2:13)" In fact, the Bible teaches tolerance. (Col 2:16, James 4:11-12 ) Rom 14:4 - "who are you to judge someone else's servant". But Christians are very exclusive. They are not bad, but they lack an understanding. First of all, they believe that a person chooses to be good or bad. So no wonder they believe that a person should be rewarded/punished.

But on the other hand, we SHOULD teach each other to be good. That's part of evolving, that's how we reprogram ourselves to change our set of instructions and to follow a better set, the one that would make us act better. So we should teach without judgment. And in fact, that's what the Bible teaches as well.

But human nature (our gene programming) interferes with this process (of learning tolerance). Because getting angry at someone who is different is very very easy, it comes naturally. But trying to empathize with them, trying to understand their actions, trying to see their side and trying to put yourself in their shoes, is very very difficult. It's like swimming against the current of the river's flow. It's painful. And we don't want to do it. We just do the easy thing: we get angry. And sometimes we feel the anger is correct and that is called a self righteous anger. The disciples wanted to cast fire on the city which did not obey Jesus. But Jesus didn't get angry, he understood the people of the city. But disciples chose the self righteous easy path: let's just burn them! Jesus said: you don't know of what spirit you are...(Luk 9:54-56, but this is only in King James Bible. NIV omits this statement for some reason). In other words, many people get self righteously angry and think they are acting good, that a supposedly righteous anger is good, but all it is is their hot temper flaring up and their lack of understanding showing itself. And Jesus knew that. So he told people to stop judging by appearances only. (John 7:24) In other words, you don't understand what's going on and you jump to the wrong conclusions. And another example of people judging others without understanding was: take the wood out of your own eye before you can see to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Luk 6:42) Paul also said: you judge others, but you yourselves are doing the same thing. (Rom 2:1-3)

Humans can be reprogrammed to act differently. But this reprogramming takes time and sometimes other factors have to be present in order for reprogramming to take place. So one can't just say: I will change my behavior tomorrow and act differently. If it was possible, then Paul of the Bible would not say: I can't do the good that I want and I end up doing the bad that I don't want to do. Paul was very devoted to God, and of all the people he would probably try the hardest to change if it was possible. But again, a change is possible, but it doesn't happen on command and it doesn't happen overnight. And it's difficult, so the person has to have enough motivation to want to do it before he can even consider doing it.

There was an experiment: people were trying to breed foxes to make them be born different. Normally, foxes are not tame animals and are not affectionate to humans. But after a few generations of breeding, they finally produced an affectionate fox. The aggressive foxes had more adrenaline in their body. So what we have in our body, the balance of chemicals, determines how nice or not nice we are. But again, we have many processes working together, so it's not just that which determines how kind we are. There are many other factors.


People get angry easily because they don't understand others and they see others' behavior as bad. And they want to do bad in return. And so there is envy and strife and jealousy and fights. Seeing others as bad and wanting to do bad as payback is a bad cycle in which people get stuck sometimes. To break that cycle, one has to consciously choose to stop doing bad even if he/she wants to. They have to force themselves to go beyond instinct and to go against their program and to make a stop to this vicious cycle. Paul of the Bible teaches the same: overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). He meant: stop paying evil for evil. Overcome that desire. But pay back with good. Because paying back with good "heaps hot coals on someone's head" as they say. In other words, the other person wakes up (so to speak) and starts to feel guilty about doing something bad to the other person and starts to do good also. And so the cycle gets reversed, they start to do good to each other.

Another secret to break a cycle of bad behavior towards each other is what Jesus said: treat others as YOU want to be treated. This always works. But this requires consciousness to make that decision. Someone did something bad to you. And you have a choice: to react according to your robot programming and to do something bad in return OR to think about it consciously and realize that the best thing for both of you would be if you do something good for this person (as you would want this person to do for you).

It was shown in studies that consciousness responds to things slower than your robot part. So that's why people often say things that they later regret saying. That's why they teach: count to ten before saying anything. This is to give time for your consciousness (your thinking) to catch up and to make a decision rather than just letting your robot respond for you. (Or a shortcut to being good is: program your robot to always respond to people politely. So that it wouldn't embarrass you. That way even if you didn't get a chance to think about what you're saying, you can rest assured that your robot part is going to react in a polite fashion and you can feel proud of yourself rather than feeling regret for your actions later.)[/SIZE]

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

how about shortening the OP a little - too long for me, sorry