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Old 06-07-2019, 10:29 PM
 
230 posts, read 286,061 times
Reputation: 364

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
The MSB has homeless services on a lower level. So that's what's going on that you may have noticed.

Not this thread but I listed where homeless problems were much worse in CC than they are right now. Three conspicuous spots on the Parkway: Logan Circle, Shakepeare Park and where the Barnes is today. The latter location used to house the Youth Study Center and its perpetual never leaving homeless encampment. Pre-renovation Love Park was a mess of homeless. Sections of Penn Center grounds particularly around 16th and JFK had a lot homeless people hanging out. None of that exists today. Once the new "Gallery" opens, you may very see improvements to what you are talking about. That is still a construction site.

Just take the time to look at the DA's Offices website. It's pretty informative. Btw, I did not vote for Krasner. But, I do understand his pov.
Not suggesting in anyway that Center City in general is unsafe. Just that over the past several months/year or so, I’ve noticed what seems to me an uptick in illicit activity in a few specific areas. When I saw MSE’s post about the shooting on the subway platform at City Hall, it stood out to me, because of a few recent altercations I’ve witnessed first-hand that seemed like they could easily have escalated to gunfire. Those incidents stood out to me as well, because they seemed so out of character for Center City, especially during business hours.

I’ve gone to school/worked in Center City since the late 80’s, lived there for the better part of a decade in the late 90’s/2000’s, and these days usually get down that way 2-3 times a week on business. I’m familiar with both the homeless services hub at MSB, and the former homeless encampments you mention. In my previous post I stated that I thought part of what was going on might due to displacement caused by redevelopment and gentrification.

And again, not suggesting that Center City is unsafe in general; just that what I’ve noticed, particularly to the east of City Hall, for the better part of the last year or so feels a little different to me. Just my take.

As far as Krasner, like I said; time will tell. Criminal justice reform in this city unquestionably long overdue. That’s undeniable. To me the question is: can he balance meaningful reform for the accused, with the best interests of what are in many instances besieged communities? While I admit that I, personally, have my doubts about him; he deserves a good faith chance to try.

 
Old 06-08-2019, 12:08 PM
 
Location: NYC & Media PA
840 posts, read 692,356 times
Reputation: 796
Uh have you happened to see what happened in NYC in the 90's ? called the broken window theory cause they enforce even small crimes, complete opposite of our guy. You may want to brush up on history

Quote:
Originally Posted by MB1562 View Post
And the tough-on-crime approach of the 70s and 80s worked so well to reduce it....
 
Old 06-08-2019, 01:25 PM
 
84 posts, read 51,928 times
Reputation: 127
Being tough on minor crime creates feedback loops where those that enter the justice system can no longer find meaningful productive work since few employers are willing to work with people who even have non-violent histories. Which, since the US has no guaranteed job program, means that they have few options but to resort to more crime to support themselves, creating a vicious reinforcing cycle of recidivism.


On the other hand, focusing primarily on violent or substantial crimes, frees up your police force to focus on the most harmful criminal activity, and helps to avoid getting the recidivism cycle started.


This is only part of the solution though. We need, as I alluded to above, a guaranteed jobs program, guaranteed essentials like food, shelter, medical care, education (including higher education) and sufficient funding for mental health initiatives to provide enough facilities to house those who are unable to care for themselves.


These things remove the incentives for crime due to desperation or mental illness and only leave you with criminals who violate the laws because they simply don't care about their neighbors.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,155 posts, read 9,047,788 times
Reputation: 10496
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
Uh have you happened to see what happened in NYC in the 90's ? called the broken window theory cause they enforce even small crimes, complete opposite of our guy. You may want to brush up on history
Actually, one of the two academics responsible for coming up with the "broken windows" theory of policing said some years later that what most cities implemented wasn't what they had in mind at all, and that it was supposed to be part of an order maintenance strategy rooted in community policing. IOW, what everyone thought was "broken windows" policing wasn't.

What too many African-Americans know is that too many cops aren't interested in maintaining order along with the community (read what George Kelling, the co-creator who died three weeks ago, had to say about what people in low-income neighborhoods wanted from the police in the article linked below) but rather what can only be considered harrassment simply because some people fit a (way too broad) profile.

Enforcing QOL crimes was part of the package; you're right about that. Filing the jails, however, wasn't. QOL crimes are usually misdemeanors or summary offenses, and both of those are dealt with through fines rather than jail time. Combined with "restorative justice" - having the offender "repay the debt to society" by doing something to repair the damage caused directly - it could change the way cops and community interact.

We have yet to try these here, AFAICT.

The 'Broken Windows' Debate Survives Its Creators | The Atlantic
 
Old 06-08-2019, 05:59 PM
 
Location: NYC & Media PA
840 posts, read 692,356 times
Reputation: 796
Your posts are always well thought out and insightful, so with that I would ask from an intellectual standpoint what can be done to curb the violent crimes being committed by juveniles ? (large violent flash mobs etc), I ride the El daily and it seems as though most of the youth have no fear of the Septa police and harrass and annoy other passengers. This is going to just manifest itself into adults who wont follow the rules of decent society either. While I do understand the line between harassment and enforcement it seems like obviously the younger people arent feeling the effects of either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Actually, one of the two academics responsible for coming up with the "broken windows" theory of policing said some years later that what most cities implemented wasn't what they had in mind at all, and that it was supposed to be part of an order maintenance strategy rooted in community policing. IOW, what everyone thought was "broken windows" policing wasn't.

What too many African-Americans know is that too many cops aren't interested in maintaining order along with the community (read what George Kelling, the co-creator who died three weeks ago, had to say about what people in low-income neighborhoods wanted from the police in the article linked below) but rather what can only be considered harrassment simply because some people fit a (way too broad) profile.

Enforcing QOL crimes was part of the package; you're right about that. Filing the jails, however, wasn't. QOL crimes are usually misdemeanors or summary offenses, and both of those are dealt with through fines rather than jail time. Combined with "restorative justice" - having the offender "repay the debt to society" by doing something to repair the damage caused directly - it could change the way cops and community interact.

We have yet to try these here, AFAICT.

The 'Broken Windows' Debate Survives Its Creators | The Atlantic
 
Old 06-08-2019, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
938 posts, read 446,040 times
Reputation: 1386
https://6abc.com/community-events/fr...ment-/5338613/
Events like this are a nice gesture, but until the culture changes in these communities, the violence will continue.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
938 posts, read 446,040 times
Reputation: 1386
NE Philadelphia:
https://6abc.com/police-man-sought-f...lphia/5338832/
This should make the usual suspects happy.


Personally, I hope somebody sends this creep to meet his maker.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
938 posts, read 446,040 times
Reputation: 1386
Roxborough:
https://6abc.com/man-shot-to-death-i...tment/5339017/
 
Old 06-09-2019, 11:58 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,753,016 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
Your posts are always well thought out and insightful, so with that I would ask from an intellectual standpoint what can be done to curb the violent crimes being committed by juveniles ? (large violent flash mobs etc), I ride the El daily and it seems as though most of the youth have no fear of the Septa police and harrass and annoy other passengers. This is going to just manifest itself into adults who wont follow the rules of decent society either. While I do understand the line between harassment and enforcement it seems like obviously the younger people arent feeling the effects of either.
I ride the BSL more often than the El. I can count on one hand the times I've seen Septa cops over the last month on the subway. So, I kinda, assume it's the same on the El.

I have never been harassed on either. Out of curiosity when do you see that going on?
 
Old 06-09-2019, 05:27 PM
 
Location: NYC & Media PA
840 posts, read 692,356 times
Reputation: 796
Between 3-4 along the El going into W Philly, its not assaultive harassment, its more so jostling, loud arguments, pounding on windows once they get off etc-

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
I ride the BSL more often than the El. I can count on one hand the times I've seen Septa cops over the last month on the subway. So, I kinda, assume it's the same on the El.

I have never been harassed on either. Out of curiosity when do you see that going on?
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