Philadelphia 2035 (York, Chester, West Chester: private schools, annex, farmer)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Gotta Society Hill. One time it was at the forefront od development and revitalization, now its crotchety and backwards. I guess money can buy a lot of things.


City Council exempts Society Hill from zoning break for green roofs and grocery stores

Trying to put a green roof on John Penn's mansion would not seem right, imo. But to exempt all of Society Hill is not sensible either.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

I personally love this. I'm like the only person I have ever known to ride the short train to Chinatown station. The spur has always been so under utilized. Hopefully it will spur a long some more development in the area.

Meet the second.

Chinatown station on the Ridge Spur is the least-used subway station on the SEPTA system.

The Ridge Spur is also the site of the only abandoned subway station on the system: Spring Garden (Ridge Spur). The station is located where Ridge, Spring Garden, and 12th meet - two blocks from Spring Garden station on the main line.

Look for a dimly lit space with walls completely graffitied over about a minute after leaving Fairmount or Chinatown when riding the Ridge Spur.

One reason SEPTA operates Ridge Spur trains as expresses all the way to Olney is to give that line some traffic; it gets okay peak-hour ridership to 8th and Market.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Meet the second.

Chinatown station on the Ridge Spur is the least-used subway station on the SEPTA system.

The Ridge Spur is also the site of the only abandoned subway station on the system: Spring Garden (Ridge Spur). The station is located where Ridge, Spring Garden, and 12th meet - two blocks from Spring Garden station on the main line.

Look for a dimly lit space with walls completely graffitied over about a minute after leaving Fairmount or Chinatown when riding the Ridge Spur.

One reason SEPTA operates Ridge Spur trains as expresses all the way to Olney is to give that line some traffic; it gets okay peak-hour ridership to 8th and Market.

Yeah-used to love seeing the abandoned Spring Garden station when I was in high school taking the spur from Girard. Then I worked at 8th and Market so it would always be so nice to catch the spur straight to work instead of walking or taking the el from city hall.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Meet the second.

Chinatown station on the Ridge Spur is the least-used subway station on the SEPTA system.

The Ridge Spur is also the site of the only abandoned subway station on the system: Spring Garden (Ridge Spur). The station is located where Ridge, Spring Garden, and 12th meet - two blocks from Spring Garden station on the main line.

Look for a dimly lit space with walls completely graffitied over about a minute after leaving Fairmount or Chinatown when riding the Ridge Spur.

One reason SEPTA operates Ridge Spur trains as expresses all the way to Olney is to give that line some traffic; it gets okay peak-hour ridership to 8th and Market.

It would be great if they connected the spur around to the patco line (which ideally would have run into U City)


also with all the development potential with the rail park I wonder how much it would cost to open the SG station or even a RR station at SG

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

It would be great if they connected the spur around to the patco line (which ideally would have run into U City)


also with all the development potential with the rail park I wonder how much it would cost to open the SG station or even a RR station at SG

The lower-level station at 8th and Market was originally used by Ridge Spur trains. Bridge Line trains used it beginning when the line opened in 1936.

Both lines ran through to 15th-16th and Locust when the rest of that subway tunnel opened for service in 1952.

The connection between the two tunnels was severed once PATCO started running through the 8th/Locust subway in 1969. The single-track stub terminal for Ridge trains at the mezzanine level opened then.

You can still see the junction between the tunnels if you ride a PATCO train eastbound; look to the left just before the train turns right to approach the bridge crossing via Franklin Square station.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

The lower-level station at 8th and Market was originally used by Ridge Spur trains. Bridge Line trains used it beginning when the line opened in 1936.

Both lines ran through to 15th-16th and Locust when the rest of that subway tunnel opened for service in 1952.

The connection between the two tunnels was severed once PATCO started running through the 8th/Locust subway in 1969. The single-track stub terminal for Ridge trains at the mezzanine level opened then.

You can still see the junction between the tunnels if you ride a PATCO train eastbound; look to the left just before the train turns right to approach the bridge crossing via Franklin Square station.

Do you know of any structural or logistical problems that would make it not feasible for both the spur and Patco to run through the Locust Street tunnel? Obviously the payment/fare is not unified but anything else? Given the direction of things, I would prefer the spur to run through the Locust Street tunnel and have Patco terminate at 8th and Market but not sure that could ever work without building another underground terminal.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Do you know of any structural or logistical problems that would make it not feasible for both the spur and Patco to run through the Locust Street tunnel? Obviously the payment/fare is not unified but anything else? Given the direction of things, I would prefer the spur to run through the Locust Street tunnel and have Patco terminate at 8th and Market but not sure that could ever work without building another underground terminal.

They'd have to rebuild the connection. Also PATCO has automatic train operation. I'm guessing that wouldn't mix with SEPTA dispatching and signaling.

There's such little purpose though. 12th/13th and Locust and 15th/16th and Locust are already so close to Walnut-Locust Station. (and I'll add not incredibly far from 13th/15th and Market either). The whole project would basically just benefit anybody who would take the Broad Ridge Spur to 9th and Locust. As a daily rider of the Broad Ridge Spur to 8th and Market, I can say this would not be a whole lot of people.

The Broad Ridge Spur - or even the Locust Street Tunnel - would never really have been planned to operate as is. There were supposed to be multiple spurs of the BSL. The only one that exists, the Ridge Avenue/8th Street/Locust Street tunnel is only part of what was to be a downtown loop.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

There's such little purpose though. 12th/13th and Locust and 15th/16th and Locust are already so close to Walnut-Locust Station. (and I'll add not incredibly far from 13th/15th and Market either). The whole project would basically just benefit anybody who would take the Broad Ridge Spur to 9th and Locust.

Good points. Thanks.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

The Broad Ridge Spur - or even the Locust Street Tunnel - would never really have been planned to operate as is. There were supposed to be multiple spurs of the BSL. The only one that exists, the Ridge Avenue/8th Street/Locust Street tunnel is only part of what was to be a downtown loop.

It actually replaced the downtown loop, work on which began along with the City Hall station and the Frankford Elevated in 1915.

There's a short stretch of excavated tunnel in the 1300 block of Arch Street that was supposed to be part of the loop subway. It was sealed up when the city halted all work on the Broad Street Subway save shoring up the City Hall station about a year or two after it began. Sometime between then and 1925, when work resumed, the route was altered to replace the loop with the spur line. As I know that one of the criticisms the man who succeeded A. Meritt Taylor as Director of City Transit had about Taylor's 1913 proposal was the difficulty of installing full crossovers to allow loop trains to reach both the Broad Street and Parkway-29th Street-Roxborough lines between the planned station between Chestnut and Walnut streets and the Locust Street wye, I suspect he had something to do with it.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Do you know of any structural or logistical problems that would make it not feasible for both the spur and Patco to run through the Locust Street tunnel? Obviously the payment/fare is not unified but anything else? Given the direction of things, I would prefer the spur to run through the Locust Street tunnel and have Patco terminate at 8th and Market but not sure that could ever work without building another underground terminal.

There's no way that 2 different systems could be running through the Locust St tunnel in rush hour. There would be a big problem for both systems to use it off rush, but only one to use it during rush.

I started using the High Speedline in September of 1969. By the early to mid 70s, the port authority proposed extending it on Locust by one or two stops as well as a Gloucester County line & a Burlington County line, that would have gone through Moorestown. Trenton killed the South Jersey extensions. I don't remember if the city extension was killed by Trenton or Trenton & Harrisburg. There was a lot of federal money for transportation. The PATCO line was studied by San Francisco for BART, which, in turn, was studied for Baltimore, DC, & Atlanta.