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I didn't live in Germantown Back When, but it seemed pretty cool when I first laid eyes on it in the mid-1980s and it still seems that way to me now that I live there, on the east side, which is more downscale than the west side but has some pretty beautiful blocks in it too (one of them is the 600 block of East Church Lane, just up from the Freshgrocer, the best supermarket in Germantown; it got even better after its owner joined the ShopRite cooperative, but its service could at times be better).
I do, however, need to correct a couple of items upthread that might leave people with the wrong impression about the state of G'town's main business strip:
The McDonald's in the 100 block of East Chelten Avenue remains open. Like all the others, it now serves breakfast all day.
The Pathmark at 180 West Chelten will reopen as a Thriftway; the owners of Norristown Thriftway bought the store from A&P during the company's second round of store options.
I've never been a fan of Save-a-Lot, but I will admit that the Plaza at Chelten store is the nicest and best Save-a-Lot I've ever set foot in, with a wider variety of products and a produce section that doesn't suck to boot. For my money, however, Bottom Dollar Food was THE class act in that category, and I still miss the Chew and Washington Lane store, the 66th and last store in the chain to open. Aldi's not bringing that store back to life, probably because it's so close to that Freshgrocer; I note that ShopRite often meets or beats the deep-discount, no-service, limited-selection supermarkets on price with its specials.
But speaking of the Plaza at Chelten, anyone notice that half its spaces are now vacant? I realize that two of the vacancies (Citibank and Anna's Linens) are the result of companies either pulling out of the Philadelphia market completely (the bank) or going out of business entirely (the home store), but I'd say it's not a good sign that the spaces don't seem to be filling fast.
Chatkharay is the name of the Indian restaurant, and it's good. I'd love to have a decent sit-down restaurant in East Germantown. La Salle looked like it had landed one for its shopping center, but I've seen no sign of activity in the Shoppes at La Salle parking lot since the liquor license permit and zoning notice went up.
Has anyone tried Happy Bread, the new cafe at G'town and Chelten, yet?
BTW, I've heard rumors that La Salle is having trouble attracting students or is otherwise not in great shape. Anyone else?
I too think that Germantown needs rejeuvenation more than it needs gentrification, and the Doley sisters (Aime and Emaleigh) are a real asset. I like what Germantown United CDC has been trying to do as well; the CDC on my side of the neighborhood, Germantown Restoration CDC, appears moribund. Turning the community's core into an extended social services center, however, is not a smart move for the long term.
I am going to miss guard desk duty at the Hathaway House. Just a little bit. And maybe one of these years, that restaurant will reopen. I'm not holding my breath.
I do, however, need to correct a couple of items upthread that might leave people with the wrong impression about the state of G'town's main business strip:
The McDonald's in the 100 block of East Chelten Avenue remains open. Like all the others, it now serves breakfast all day.
The Pathmark at 180 West Chelten will reopen as a Thriftway; the owners of Norristown Thriftway bought the store from A&P during the company's second round of store options.
You really didn't need to go out of your way to "correct" me. I was talking about the McDonalds location on Germantown Ave. It was the last big business retail on that strip of Germantown from the time when Woolworths was there (and also on Chelten), Modells, Allen's etc. If you had lived there a litle longer perhaps youd have a better memory of what im talking about, and a different perspective on its current state. Clearly you did not live there in the 80's and 90's. Germantown Ave has really emptied out. The recent East Chelten development you mention, along with what was similarly done by Wayne and Chelten, were dismaying to me because they were & are off-street suburban strip mall type developments. The actual street retail is not at all healthy.
I remember when the supermarket at Wayne and Chelten was A&P, then Superfresh, then Pathmark. And I remember when the Save-A-Lot was a full-size "Shop-n-Bag" that was at least a fully functional supermarket.
My mom, who lives a few blocks away, describes the Save-A-Lot as a place where she buys cat food and that's it.
2 separate large projects that I feel are post worthy. I want to hear peoples opinion. Both are 2nd iterations. The original Old City plan fell through, not sure why exactly, and the original 34 story "Rodin Tower" fell through due to NIMBYS and the recession, and now we have the Dalian in its place. Still attractive, but I feel like both are again the result of NIMBY fear of heights, developers trying to use every sqft of space on the site, rather than using height and better massing, an absent city, and lack of design standards.
Overall I am pleased with both of these projects, but they went from A+ designs to B/B- designs.
Why do projects that don't go through because they don't get the city zoning laws bent for them in just the way developers want always seem to get attributed to NIMBYs?
This thread is about a long term city planning vision and endeavor after all. Accordingly, I think we should take planning seriously and not give developers as much as they want as fast as they want. There's nothing inherently good about height.
The new version of the 2nd & New project looks to be a big improvement, and I appreciate that they set back the facade above the street wall (sacrificing sq footage).
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome
Why do projects that don't go through because they don't get the city zoning laws bent for them in just the way developers want always seem to get attributed to NIMBYs?
This thread is about a long term city planning vision and endeavor after all. Accordingly, I think we should take planning seriously and not give developers as much as they want as fast as they want. There's nothing inherently good about height.
The new version of the 2nd & New project looks to be a big improvement, and I appreciate that they set back the facade above the street wall (sacrificing sq footage).
I agree with you, especially your statement about height. Over & over I see comments from people wanting height on Market east. I cringe when I see that. Many of these posters also like to talk about the skyline. I have to wonder how many of them look at the skyline from the middle of the Ben Franklin. Having a few mid-height buildings on Market east would be OK, but not skyscrapers. Before Willard Rouse got his way, there was great depth to the view as you crossed the river.
As to builders having their way, that is the cause of the sprawl in southern cities. Infrastructure needs to keep pace with building and roads & public transportation are expensive.
Why do projects that don't go through because they don't get the city zoning laws bent for them in just the way developers want always seem to get attributed to NIMBYs?
This thread is about a long term city planning vision and endeavor after all. Accordingly, I think we should take planning seriously and not give developers as much as they want as fast as they want. There's nothing inherently good about height.
The new version of the 2nd & New project looks to be a big improvement, and I appreciate that they set back the facade above the street wall (sacrificing sq footage).
Because the original "Rodin Tower" was stalled due to concerns simply about height and then the recession came along and officially killed it. In many cases there is nothing wrong with height. I lost the rendering, but the initial design was tall and slim, it took up a much smaller footprint, didn't overwhelm the Barnes Museum and could have offered the opportunity for open site lines along 21st or 22nd St. Luckily the facade is glass and not paneling.
There are so many cases where prime real real estate is turned into this massive hulking building that is 100' tall and takes up the entire site, whereas a building that is over 300-400'' tall and takes up about 1/2 of the site is so much easier on the eye and less invasive IMO on the surroundings. Most (not all neighbors) would prefer an ugly blob with parking rather than a sleek highrise that better compliments the neighborhood. Its a very parochial viewpoint if you ask me.
I still say 1706 Ritt, The Medical Arts Building, and the Aria Condo (former Lewis Tower) are some of the finest examples of sleek highrises blending into their surroundings. Why not add more instead of another 1900 Arch?
Why do projects that don't go through because they don't get the city zoning laws bent for them in just the way developers want always seem to get attributed to NIMBYs?
This thread is about a long term city planning vision and endeavor after all. Accordingly, I think we should take planning seriously and not give developers as much as they want as fast as they want. There's nothing inherently good about height.
The new version of the 2nd & New project looks to be a big improvement, and I appreciate that they set back the facade above the street wall (sacrificing sq footage).
I also agree with you on height. There are four projects in particular where I feel the planned height is disproportional to their surroundings:
- The 30+ story apartment complex set to go onto the old Boyd Theatre site
- The 22 story condo under construction on Locust near the Schuylkill trail
- The 47 story hotel/condo at S Broad & Locust
- The 26 story uber-lux condo going up on 5th and Walnut overlooking Indepence Hall
While most of the designs are attractive in their own right, I have some reservation that they may stick out like a sore thumb once completed. Time will of course tell. This is in addition to my concern that we may have a few too many residential properties coming on market at the same time. I saw that with my own eyes in Houston in the mid-1980s. It's not pretty, so I'm hoping the developers have done their marketing homework.
I also agree with you on height. There are four projects in particular where I feel the planned height is disproportional to their surroundings:
- The 30+ story apartment complex set to go onto the old Boyd Theatre site
- The 22 story condo under construction on Locust near the Schuylkill trail
- The 47 story hotel/condo at S Broad & Locust
- The 26 story uber-lux condo going up on 5th and Walnut overlooking Indepence Hall
While most of the designs are attractive in their own right, I have some reservation that they may stick out like a sore thumb once completed. Time will of course tell. This is in addition to my concern that we may have a few too many residential properties coming on market at the same time. I saw that with my own eyes in Houston in the mid-1980s. It's not pretty, so I'm hoping the developers have done their marketing homework.
The only one I agree with is the Dranoff building in Fitler Sq. But how are any of the others out of scale with the neighborhood??
32 story Boyd project is blocks from Rittenhouse highrises, 2116 Chestnut and 2 Liberty Place..
SLS at Broad and Locust is located in the densest part of town..
500 Walnut is matching the height of the office tower next door, and is still shorter than Society Hill Towers.
If those projects are out of place, you might as well say Comcast 2 is out of place..
I also agree with you on height. There are four projects in particular where I feel the planned height is disproportional to their surroundings:
- The 30+ story apartment complex set to go onto the old Boyd Theatre site
- The 22 story condo under construction on Locust near the Schuylkill trail
- The 47 story hotel/condo at S Broad & Locust
- The 26 story uber-lux condo going up on 5th and Walnut overlooking Indepence Hall
While most of the designs are attractive in their own right, I have some reservation that they may stick out like a sore thumb once completed. Time will of course tell. This is in addition to my concern that we may have a few too many residential properties coming on market at the same time. I saw that with my own eyes in Houston in the mid-1980s. It's not pretty, so I'm hoping the developers have done their marketing homework.
I imagine that in 1983/84 or so, when Willard Rouse first proposed Liberty Place I, you may have been one of the people objecting to breaking the Gentleman's Agreement, about building taller than the William Penn statue on City Hall. Plenty of people, then, thought exactly the way you do now about some of these new projects. Were they right? IMO, no.
While you make good points, you are still new to the city and you weren't around when there was practically no development anywhere in the city.
As someone who's lived here a long time my perspective is I'd rather see the development than the equvalent of none.
I also agree with you on height. There are four projects in particular where I feel the planned height is disproportional to their surroundings:
- The 30+ story apartment complex set to go onto the old Boyd Theatre site
- The 22 story condo under construction on Locust near the Schuylkill trail
- The 47 story hotel/condo at S Broad & Locust
- The 26 story uber-lux condo going up on 5th and Walnut overlooking Indepence Hall
While most of the designs are attractive in their own right, I have some reservation that they may stick out like a sore thumb once completed. Time will of course tell. This is in addition to my concern that we may have a few too many residential properties coming on market at the same time. I saw that with my own eyes in Houston in the mid-1980s. It's not pretty, so I'm hoping the developers have done their marketing homework.
I disagree. I think all of these are a good fit for the area for sure. Even the 22 story Dranoff tower.
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