Loft District: 314 N 12th st.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Philly PA

That would be awesome pman. The Loft District has been such an underdeveloped and ignored area since industry left. It's in a great location (proximity-wise) and has a lot going for it. It just needs to connect to other areas of town -- like Spring Garden district, CC, and maybe one day, the Western edge of Northern Liberties.

It's too bad that the area immediately West of NL and North of Loft District (forget the name) is so ghetto. Basically that entire area is PHA and projects, so it's hard to say if the Loft District will be able to connect anwhere North. I agree though, that this project will be a nice start for the entire area.

there's been a modest about of infill in the area between the allen homes and spring garden..the independence press building was approved for conversion into apartments (not sure when and if it will move forward) and north broad is developing (with the conversion of the wilkie dealership and the future opening of the starr and vetri restaurants).

[Philly PA]

Yeah, I hear you, but for years I lived in NL and used to run up Brown from 4th St. to Kelly Drive. Man, that's an eye-opening run. I even got jacked a few years back (I think I was on 9th and Fairmount) in the early morning hours when I made the stupid decision to cut straight through from the Fairmount bars to my house. Ironically the guy (actually probably a kid) who had a gun to my head only stole was the bag I was carrying with a Wawa shortie in it.

Anyway, IMO, to improve that area to any meaningful degree, the city would literally have to displace thousands of residents. I just don't see 7th to Broad, Spring Garden to Girard improving on any real scale anytime soon.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Philly PA

Yeah, I hear you, but for years I lived in NL and used to run up Brown from 4th St. to Kelly Drive. Man, that's an eye-opening run. I even got jacked a few years back (I think I was on 9th and Fairmount) in the early morning hours when I made the stupid decision to cut straight through from the Fairmount bars to my house. Ironically the guy (actually probably a kid) who had a gun to my head only stole was the bag I was carrying with a Wawa shortie in it.

Anyway, IMO, to improve that area to any meaningful degree, the city would literally have to displace thousands of residents. I just don't see 7th to Broad, Spring Garden to Girard improving on any real scale anytime soon.

it already has, actually. while crime occurs in the area, it's nowhere near the levels it was BEFORE they redeveloped the allen homes (believe it or not). there's already been a good bit of infill. Fairmount ave cuts through the heart of the allen homes but south of there is largely private. I see continued, slow improvement as development has now reached broad from the west. I do agree though, to really improve things dramatically, they need to downsize the projects. especially those near the poe house.

[Philly PA]

Yeah, I hear you. During the housing boom a few years back contractors built a handful of townhomes and there has been some exisiting home reahab South of Fairmount. However, I don't see that area making any big leaps until they physically move several hundred if not thousands of people from the area. Slow infill works in places like the Loft District that are largely empty, or in areas like Grad Hosp. where it's mainly private owners who can be bought out. The area we're discussing is majority PHA city-owned housing. Bottom line is thousands of desperate, uneducated, poverty-sticken people will always (or for the foreseeable future) be living in the neighorhood. You're never going to have an above-average QOL with this scenario.

[Marius Pontmercy]

Originally Posted by Philly PA

Yeah, I hear you. During the housing boom a few years back contractors built a handful of townhomes and there has been some exisiting home reahab South of Fairmount. However, I don't see that area making any big leaps until they physically move several hundred if not thousands of people from the area. Slow infill works in places like the Loft District that are largely empty, or in areas like Grad Hosp. where it's mainly private owners who can be bought out. The area we're discussing is majority PHA city-owned housing. Bottom line is thousands of desperate, uneducated, poverty-sticken people will always (or for the foreseeable future) be living in the neighorhood. You're never going to have an above-average QOL with this scenario.

Actually, there aren't many "desperate, uneducated, poverty-stricken" people in the Richard Allen Homes. That is basically one of the nicer of PHA's developments, and they only let in their best tenants. Many of those homes actually became owner-occupied because their former tenants were able to buy them from PHA. While the building style certainly clashes and was ill-conceived, its still one of the better projects so if you're going to put something next to a project it might as well be that one. Also, the neighborhood north of Girard up to Temple's campus is pretty stable as well.

[Philly PA]

Eh, I totally disagree with that analysis. Richard Allen might be some of the better projects, but that's not saying a whole lot in my opinion. Obviously, it's pretty subjective, but I used to live two blocks away for more than four years (and this was recent). Not uncommon to see babies crawling around in the street and courtyard, dozens of young men shooting dice and just loitering. Cops used to park near a corner store on 8th and Brown every day, all day. Overall, not a pleasant experience. I've got a pretty tough urban skin and I can't imagine living in that area being surrounded by that day-in and day-out. Sure, it might be safer than before and progress might be creeping in, but I can't see many white collar, semi-affluent professionals even considering that area in large numbers until some major changes occur.

I also disagree with your comment about stability from there up to Temple. Again, it's getting better, but if you find yourself walking North, by the DD on 8th and Girard, or past the Methodone clinic on 7th and Girard after dark, or even past the gas station at 6th and Girard, you're definitely NOT where you want to be. That whole area is BAD news still.

A girl just got raped and murdered around there by a resident of the very Richard Allen houses we're talking about. He was 17 if my memory serves me right, already had a few drug busts and was riding around looking for trouble at 2am. Unforutnately, being unemployed, having priors and not even having a GED is not an uncommon description of many residents living in the areas we're discussing. Thus my description of "uneducated, poverty-stricken and bored/desperate" Disclaimer: No racism or elitism intended. Just trying to explain the area as i have experienced it as nearby resident.