Spoonfeeding 5 year olds... (method, SAHM, milk, games)

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by suzie02

Would you do it for daughters too?

Of course I would do it for daughters if I had any.

My boys love when I peel and orange or tangerine for them. I am not sure why that one little thing delights them so much but it does. If I am not around they peel them themselves.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by omigawd

Your kids are 4 and 1. Wait until they start school and see what other choices are available to them or what other children offer them.

I don't wait. They've already been exposed to those choices. We sometimes order pizza for ourselves and they don't want it. Or hamburgers. Or chinese; or any take out. My older one will have some fries here and there but he would go an year without thinking of it because we just don't practice that kind of eating in the house. They do like chocolate though and they get it in controlled portions.

Originally Posted by omigawd

Their tastes WILL change... and the fact that you forbid it will only make it more appealing to them.

Many people miss the fine line between "forbidding" and "not cultivating".
There's nothing "forbidden" in our house. But we DO NOT cultivate "finger foods", and we DO encourage the classic "1st course (soup), 2nd course + salad and fruit-based desert" meal at the table, which also provides the added benefit of learning table graces and manners. (Yes, important). I would like to eventually see them capable of eating their food with the knife in the left hand and the fork in the other, cutting it with grace, not torturing it with the fork in the right hand, as I have seen MOST people in this society eating. (already sense the "elitist" accusation coming, but do keep in mind I don't give a D).

Speaking of "forbidding", TV is not FORBIDDEN in our house either, there's actually a pretty large one (at least larger than I wish it were) right in the middle of our living room; but guess what - we're an almost "no TV household" because we NEVER turn it on when kids are around. They rarely watch something and then they get bored with it quickly. They prefer books and they last a long time with them; or playing or even just clinging to me - because we have cultivated those instead of the TV. I never resorted to TV to catch a breathing break, I gave them something else to keep them occupied.

What I am getting to is that eating, just like TV, just like anything else is about a lifestyle and an attitude not a black and white "allowed or forbidden".

Originally Posted by omigawd

However, after being in school and having friends who would have chips, cookies, candy, pizza, etc, she "acquired" a taste for this stuff. She gets it in moderation and I'm sure you'll do the same for your kids.

I believe you. We've already done the "moderation" thing, ...but let me tell you this: giving it to them "in moderation" will amount to a poor strategy if that stuff is not supplemented by tasty, delicious, home-cooked-from-scratch food, always available in the house. It is not enough to discourage or monitor how much of the bad stuff goes in. You also need to ensure there's a lot of attractive good stuff available. That's the hard part, ain't it...a part that's not at all compatible with the realities that:

1) Modern, western societies just can't cook (in the home, not talking about ethnic food restaurants).
2) Modern, western societies encourage women to work outside the home and resort to frozen dinners or otherwise preserved, non-fresh foods to make up for the lack of time.

What kills me is that I have met many SAHM-s who STILL resort to frozen meals and the famous chicken nuggets and have no clue about cooking from scratch. Vegetables equal "corn on the cobb" or "fries".
And when kids swallow a piece of carrot or cauliflower dipped in that white (and still unhealthy) stuff, it's celebration time: "Awwwwwwwwwww, she ate her veeeeeegiiiesss today!!"

It SO doesn't work this way.
And in the short time I will get the feverish protests culmninating into "if you hate America why don't you leave", obesity rates will continue to climb.

Originally Posted by omigawd

The children in the OPs story are 5 years old. It is absolutely absurd that a parent would bring their lunch to school everyday and spoon feed them, I don't care what culture they're from.

Well, I do. There are parents who happen to live in the US and still want to make sure their children eat what they should eat, period. The fact that they would be available to come and have lunch with the kids is even better. And if they feed a few spoons while they're at it, no biggie.
I wish more people did this.

Then again, I DO understand that this culture DOES NOT function along most of the lines underlying my values. It is exactly the reason why I sympathize with "fringe" groups in this country such as "homeschoolers" who courageously decide to stand by what they believe in and just remove their kids from mainstream American society because they know once the kids are out there, a million things they don't believe in will rubb off on their children. It's not easy, it's like blowing against the wind, but it can be done.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

Not EVERYTHING needs to be counseled. In fact, very little needs to be.

There's a HUGE difference between sharing lunch with your child at school and going in every day to spoon feed them.

These responses I made were not to the OP's spoonfeeding problem - they were in answer to this post

Originally Posted by omigawd
Are you kidding me???? The schools around here do not want any parents hanging around the school unless they're a "class parent" (and that's for the younger grades and only 1 parent at a time) or unless they're volunteering at the sign-in desk. None of the schools my DD has been in has ever invited parents to come eat lunch with the kids unless it was a special event. As a matter of fact, even on the "field days", the kids went back inside for lunch and parents were told to leave and come back after the lunch period was over.

I've never heard of any school (from Pre-School to 12th grade) encouraging parents to come to school and eat lunch with the kids. That's very strange.

[Kibbiekat]

Originally Posted by syracusa

I don't wait. They've already been exposed to those choices. We sometimes order pizza for ourselves and they don't want it. Or hamburgers. Or chinese; or any take out. My older one will have some fries here and there but he would go an year without thinking of it because we just don't practice that kind of eating in the house. They do like chocolate though and they get it in controlled portions.



Many people miss the fine line between "forbidding" and "not cultivating".
There's nothing "forbidden" in our house. But we DO NOT cultivate "finger foods", and we DO encourage the classic "1st course (soup), 2nd course + salad and fruit-based desert" meal at the table, which also provides the added benefit of learning table graces and manners. (Yes, important). I would like to eventually see them capable of eating their food with the knife in the left hand and the fork in the other, cutting it with grace, not torturing it with the fork in the right hand, as I have seen MOST people in this society eating. (already sense the "elitist" accusation coming, but do keep in mind I don't give a D).

Speaking of "forbidding", TV is not FORBIDDEN in our house either, there's actually a pretty large one (at least larger than I wish it were) right in the middle of our living room; but guess what - we're an almost "no TV household" because we NEVER turn it on when kids are around. They rarely watch something and then they get bored with it quickly. They prefer books and they last a long time with them; or playing or even just clinging to me - because we have cultivated those instead of the TV. I never resorted to TV to catch a breathing break, I gave them something else to keep them occupied.

What I am getting to is that eating, just like TV, just like anything else is about a lifestyle and an attitude not a black and white "allowed or forbidden".



I believe you. We've already done the "moderation" thing, ...but let me tell you this: giving it to them "in moderation" will amount to a poor strategy if that stuff is not supplemented by tasty, delicious, home-cooked-from-scratch food, always available in the house. It is not enough to discourage or monitor how much of the bad stuff goes in. You also need to ensure there's a lot of attractive good stuff available. That's the hard part, ain't it...a part that's not at all compatible with the realities that:

1) Modern, western societies just can't cook (in the home, not talking about ethnic food restaurants).
2) Modern, western societies encourage women to work outside the home and resort to frozen dinners or otherwise preserved, non-fresh foods to make up for the lack of time.

What kills me is that I have met many SAHM-s who STILL resort to frozen meals and the famous chicken nuggets and have no clue about cooking from scratch. Vegetables equal "corn on the cobb" or "fries".
And when kids swallow a piece of carrot or cauliflower dipped in that white (and still unhealthy) stuff, it's celebration time: "Awwwwwwwwwww, she ate her veeeeeegiiiesss today!!"

It SO doesn't work this way.
And in the short time I will get the feverish protests culmninating into "if you hate America why don't you leave", obesity rates will continue to climb.



Well, I do. There are parents who happen to live in the US and still want to make sure their children eat what they should eat, period. The fact that they would be available to come and have lunch with the kids is even better. And if they feed a few spoons while they're at it, no biggie.
I wish more people did this.

Then again, I DO understand that this culture DOES NOT function along most of the lines underlying my values. It is exactly the reason why I sympathize with "fringe" groups in this country such as "homeschoolers" who courageously decide to stand by what they believe in and just remove their kids from mainstream American society because they know once the kids are out there, a million things they don't believe in will rubb off on their children. It's not easy, it's like blowing against the wind, but it can be done.

you sound like you are on a very high horse about how things should and shouldn't be done. You can teach your kids table manners at breakfast, dinner, and weekends and school breaks. you do not need to go to school to make sure they are eating correctly. You say that things aren't "forbidden", just that certain things are discouraged. If that is the case, you shouldn't have a problem letting your school aged child go to school and eat without you hovering over them to make sure you are doing it right. You can serve a 3 course meal for dinner at home, but to insist on that for lunch when most kids are eating sandwiches sounds like major over-kill to me. I agree that a lot of people eat too much processed food, but to have 3 course meals EVERY time sounds like encouraging over-eating to me. and I have better things to do, like taking my kids to the park, then to spend every waking moment in the kitchen cooking from scratch every day. My kids don't care for french fries either. It isn't because we never eat them. They just don't like them.

[omigawd]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

I think it is nice to go to school to have lunch with your kid EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. I think to go every day is beyond excessive. Lunch buddies? What is the purpose of this? What is wrong with just eating with your classmates?

I agree.... why in the world would a parent have to come to school to eat lunch with their child on a regular basis and also be a "lunch buddy" to another child. I think kids need to be able to interact with their classmates during meal times and socialize with people their own age during a meal rather than sit with a parent.

I think this is more the need of the parent and not based upon the needs of the child.

[bigcats]

You are certainly not looking for any positives on this.

You're already set in the idea that kids have to be "independent" from A to Z, from the very beginning. Can't blame you, it's what an American has drummed into his/her years from day 1 as an absolutely unattackable, unquestionable, univdersal value, all the way to the grave.

Well, the truth remains that not everybody on this Earth believes that "independence in anything" is a good value. Some things are best done in "togetherness".
When children are too helpless and lack discernment to make the right choices on their own, the last thing they need is "independence".

Have you ever seen a South American, Mexican or someone from any collective culture less than enthusiastic about "independence" - INCAPABLE OF EATING ON THEIR OWN IN ADULTHOOD?
So they learn somehow, eventually, even if they are spoon fed through adolescence. Right?

Why do kids have to be "independent" with their eating choices so early?
I'd personally rather have a "dependent" healthy child at a healthy weight than an "independent" one who will develop a penchant for dry, finger foods early on simply because that's all his toddler independence could reasonably allow for.

I routinely watch what mainstream American children eat and I know I would not feed my kids those things for the life of me.

My children always eat 2 courses at lunch: soup first and some second course dish accompanied by salad. These are not foods even 6 year olds can eat very well on their own. With the first course, they need help. Period. Otherwise all that liquid is spilled on them.

My 4 1/2 yo is already eating the soups on his own, with only a few spills here and there. My 1 1/2 yo fanatically insists on eating the soup on her own but when she does, it's all over her. I often insist that she lets ME feed her. We usually try to compromise, take turns, make it work somehow.

But will I ever exclude healthy, home-cooked vegetable soups from the menu because they stay in the way of independence at 4? NO WAY!!

Otherwise, I routinely get incredulous looks from other parents when they see how my kids literally REJECT pizza, fries or any other junk food and INSIST on crude or cooked vegetables of all sorts.
In soups, in salads, in stews, you name it. They won't have it any other way.

Yes, they have been dependent on me for a while when it comes to eating - but it is my judgement as a parent that this is THE RIGHT way.

America always braggs about how diverse it is, and how many different cultures it has, yet - immigrants from traditional/collective cultures trying to maintain their ways of life are invariably seen as dysfunctional "deviants". Not nice. ;-)

I was enjoying reading the responses until this, but found a lot of this one pretty offensive.

Actually, I WAS looking for someone to explain a positive viewpoint that could help me understand this more. And I was asking for help understanding a different cultural viewpoint. I have been very stand-back in my response precisely because of I suspected this might be part of the issue (though at least half of the rest of my class shares a similar background and their parents do not come to spoonfeed them). I'm perfectly nice.

I realize that I have my own cultural bias. You misunderstand that I believe it is or should be "independence from A to Z". I understand that some things are best done in togetherness. I understand that in many cultures, this is an even more important value. You're making some pretty broad judgements about "Americans" yourself.

The issue for me is NOT that they are eating unusual, healthy, un-kid foods because their parents are there to supervise and make healthy choices for them (they're not - these kids eat Doritos and Lunchables too). Today it was a giant BLT that got mostly thrown away.

These three kids are three of the most food-rejecting kids in the class, so are not shining examples of how lots of parental involvement in feeding creates well-rounded, adventurous, healthy eaters. I'm sure they'd be whining and wriggling away if their mothers were scooping stews and crude or cooked vegetables into their mouths.

Having said that, I guess the thread has helped me confirm that I'll just ignore it. It isn't my business, as long as they aren't interupting class time. They don't sit in class waiting for someone to pick up the pencil for them (anymore) and they did finally figure out which backpack was theirs and how to unzip it to put a paper in it after the first month of school or so, so I guess the impact on the classroom itself isn't as much as it once was.

[bigcats]

Without knowing anything about the child's health background, or the culture of the family, you are putting yourself in a position that may be seen as pushy by the parent and they may end up speaking with the Director of the school.

I would welcome anyone to speak to the director of the school about me at any time. I like it. I've got nothing to hide. In this case the principal thinks I'm being too easy on the situation, but she also knows I'm not a lay-down-the-law kind of person and respects that. She'd probably fall over laughing if someone called me "pushy".

Parents are allowed on the campus and are welcome to join their kids for lunch, even though no, it's not the norm. I've never seen it at this school other than these three kids. I can't imagine having explicit rules along the lines of "You may come to lunch but may not pick up your child's eating utensils and/or place food in their mouths", and not sure how else you'd accomplish an outright ban on it.

There are no health issues that would affect feeding/diet. Something that big would be reported on the health intake form and I have looked at all of those. Also, I'd imagine that the parents would have brought it up when I did mention politely that independence in feeding oneself was encouraged at school.

I've never objected, even inwardly, to parents coming to share lunch with their kids, or even supervise their eating. It's putting food in their mouth and cajoling them to eat that I personally find distasteful.

The kids will want their moms to stop one day.

Oh they do. Not the visiting at lunch part, they like that at this age. But I'd say that squirming and whining means either 1) I want you to stop putting food in my mouth or maybe 2) It's a pretty fun game we have here, you begging me to eat and me refusing, and you putting the food in my mouth...

But as I'm not the one living with the consequences, I'm going to leave it alone. I can deal with the other issues of helplessness that do affect the academic portion of the day, related to the spoon-feeding or not, by just simply having different expectations in the classroom.

[omigawd]

Originally Posted by syracusa

I don't wait. They've already been exposed to those choices. We sometimes order pizza for ourselves and they don't want it. Or hamburgers. Or chinese; or any take out. My older one will have some fries here and there but he would go an year without thinking of it because we just don't practice that kind of eating in the house. They do like chocolate though and they get it in controlled portions.



Many people miss the fine line between "forbidding" and "not cultivating".
There's nothing "forbidden" in our house. But we DO NOT cultivate "finger foods", and we DO encourage the classic "1st course (soup), 2nd course + salad and fruit-based desert" meal at the table, which also provides the added benefit of learning table graces and manners. (Yes, important). I would like to eventually see them capable of eating their food with the knife in the left hand and the fork in the other, cutting it with grace, not torturing it with the fork in the right hand, as I have seen MOST people in this society eating. (already sense the "elitist" accusation coming, but do keep in mind I don't give a D).

Speaking of "forbidding", TV is not FORBIDDEN in our house either, there's actually a pretty large one (at least larger than I wish it were) right in the middle of our living room; but guess what - we're an almost "no TV household" because we NEVER turn it on when kids are around. They rarely watch something and then they get bored with it quickly. They prefer books and they last a long time with them; or playing or even just clinging to me - because we have cultivated those instead of the TV. I never resorted to TV to catch a breathing break, I gave them something else to keep them occupied.

What I am getting to is that eating, just like TV, just like anything else is about a lifestyle and an attitude not a black and white "allowed or forbidden".



I believe you. We've already done the "moderation" thing, ...but let me tell you this: giving it to them "in moderation" will amount to a poor strategy if that stuff is not supplemented by tasty, delicious, home-cooked-from-scratch food, always available in the house. It is not enough to discourage or monitor how much of the bad stuff goes in. You also need to ensure there's a lot of attractive good stuff available. That's the hard part, ain't it...a part that's not at all compatible with the realities that:

1) Modern, western societies just can't cook (in the home, not talking about ethnic food restaurants).
2) Modern, western societies encourage women to work outside the home and resort to frozen dinners or otherwise preserved, non-fresh foods to make up for the lack of time.

What kills me is that I have met many SAHM-s who STILL resort to frozen meals and the famous chicken nuggets and have no clue about cooking from scratch. Vegetables equal "corn on the cobb" or "fries".
And when kids swallow a piece of carrot or cauliflower dipped in that white (and still unhealthy) stuff, it's celebration time: "Awwwwwwwwwww, she ate her veeeeeegiiiesss today!!"

It SO doesn't work this way.
And in the short time I will get the feverish protests culmninating into "if you hate America why don't you leave", obesity rates will continue to climb.



Well, I do. There are parents who happen to live in the US and still want to make sure their children eat what they should eat, period. The fact that they would be available to come and have lunch with the kids is even better. And if they feed a few spoons while they're at it, no biggie.
I wish more people did this.

Then again, I DO understand that this culture DOES NOT function along most of the lines underlying my values. It is exactly the reason why I sympathize with "fringe" groups in this country such as "homeschoolers" who courageously decide to stand by what they believe in and just remove their kids from mainstream American society because they know once the kids are out there, a million things they don't believe in will rubb off on their children. It's not easy, it's like blowing against the wind, but it can be done.

Glad you THINK you have it all down to a perfection. Wish I could be there when (IF) you give your children some independence and allow them to make their own choices without you hovering over them.

Oh, and BTW, the knife is held with the right hand (not the left) and the fork in the left hand (not the right) when cutting food. After cutting, you put the knife down and switch the fork into your right hand. Further, your children aren't going to get "3 course" meals in school (soup, main course, salad) unless you're sending it in and then they'll be eating cold soup (since those thermos things don't really keep things hot and kids can't use microwaves to heat up food at school), a truly "tossed" salad, and a cold main course (see soup above).

Trust me, the high horse you're riding on today is going to throw you for a loop in a couple of years! Take it from experienced parents (me and others here).

[bellalunatic]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

At 5 years old the norm is for children to go to school. At that age, they should be able to sit and eat the meal you packed for them without any help. Mine ate lunch at preschool, ages 3 and 4. There are healthy foods that you could send to school with them that they could eat on their own. If you can't figure out how to do that you are being inflexible. I think singling a child out as the only one who has mommy come to help him eat lunch would cause self esteem issues. If it were too much to ask that 3, 4, or 5 year olds eat on their own, we wouldn't start them in school until they were older and capable.

ETA my 4 year old eats soup by himself. It can be a little messy, but he can do it. I see no reason someone should have to spoon feed a kindergartner unless the child has "special needs."

I wholeheartedly agree. I could not have said it better myself.

I will add this though, my second child started at an amazing Montessori preschool at the age of 18 months. The toddler room had kids from 18 months - 3 year olds in there, some of them were in there for a full day, including eating their own lunches. The school has a strict policy on the foods: protein, fruit, veg., no juice, no candy or junk.

The 18 months olds EAT at a table with a table mate or two, sitting properly in a chair, and are closely observed by the teacher who will help them clean up spills etc but DOES NOT FEED THEM!

For pete's sake these barely 2 year olds and 3 year olds can handle it just fine. The expectations are set and the kids rise to meet them. It's a very simple concept.

Children in this country are already babied enough as it is in general. sheesh!

We as a nation have set the level of expectations very very low, the kids are incredibly capable, but lots of parents have some serious issues.

Unless these 5 year olds have severe mental or physical disabilities there is absolutely NO reason for a parent to ever come a runnin' to spoon feed them.

To the OP, I would discuss this issue with your Principal and get their 'take' on the situation and how to move forward with this issue.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by omigawd

Oh, and BTW, the knife is held with the right hand (not the left) and the fork in the left hand (not the right) when cutting food. After cutting, you put the knife down and switch the fork into your right hand.

Good at chasing writing errors (especially when you're motivated). Chapeau. Yes, I did mean knife right, fork left when cutting. Sure enough - you will change the fork to the right when done. Did that really have to be mentioned?

But my writing error aside, how many people do you see eating like this on a day to day basis? That was more like the point, right?
Could it be from eating all the finger foods that literally invade people's mouths nowadays, from childhood all the way through?
I must be blind because all I see is people torturing the food with the fork while trying to cut it, which is terribly annoying looked at from my "high horse". Are "eye rolls" allowed? Yes ?
OK. There they are:

Originally Posted by omigawd

Further, your children aren't going to get "3 course" meals in schools

Could this be the very reason why the mother comes in with the hot food for the pre-schooler, at least while she can still do it? 3 course meals are not designed to overfeed the child, but to acommodate foods that are healthy but still filling, all in one: soups, small meal+ big salads, fruits etc. If it was not so, cultures who practice 3 course meals would be overweight and the US (practicing finger foods in a gulp) would be thin as a stick. Not so.

My high horse has been riding fine so far. Has not thrown me off yet but I will make sure to invite you over for a feel-good session when it does. For now, I am going to town with it!

My frustration has to do with all the hypocrisy over "diversity" - a terribly overused word, with very little parallel in reality.
America hardly tolerates any TRUE diversity in practice. Anything that does not align squarely with the dogmas of "independence" and "individualism" becomes unbearable to mainstream ears.
Black, white, male, female, gay, not gay - is skin-deep diversity.

So let's make up our minds once and for all: are we or are we not all about "diversity"? And if so, what kind?
How about some tolerance for real diversity, such as allowing immigrants from traditional cultures to preserve some of their original WAYS OF LIFE - if people so choose. How about not putting pressure on them to become rabid individualists and pushing their children into "sacred independence" from day 1 if their original cultural values dictate otherwise?

Let's try our hand at this type of diversity too - not just the "token" form.
No?