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Old 12-14-2019, 03:28 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,965,422 times
Reputation: 17479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
I’m going to stick with what worked for generations, not what produced this last generation.
Actually what *worked* did not really work.

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/les...behavior-seen/

Quote:
Teens may be less likely to get in fist fights when they live in countries where it’s illegal for parents to spank or slap children as punishment for bad behavior, an international study suggests.

Researchers examined data on more than 403,000 adolescents in 88 countries that are home to almost half of the world’s teenagers. Overall, rates of physical fighting were 42 percent lower among girls and 69 percent lower among boys in countries with full bans on corporal punishment at home and in school than in nations without prohibitions on spanking or hitting kids.

“Kids mimic their parents’ behavior,” said lead author Frank Elgar, a researcher at McGill University in Montreal.

“Corporal punishment teaches children that physical force is an acceptable way to change someone’s behavior,” Elgar said by email. “It’s a powerful lesson that carries through to their own social relationships in later life, including their own parenting styles, even men’s violence towards women.”
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,470,688 times
Reputation: 73937
The reason authoritarian parenting doesn't work well in the long run is you raise people who do the right thing to avoid trouble rather than doing the right thing because it's the right thing.

I think even most adults do the right thing for the wrong reasons. If the consequences are meaningless to them (like "I can afford 100 speeding tickets" or "No one will catch me" or MY FAVORITE - "Everyone does it!"), they don't bother doing the right thing.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,470,688 times
Reputation: 73937
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Authoritarian parenting actually has poorer outcomes, behaviorally, than the authoritative style.

Authoritarian and Authoritative parenting are superficially similar in that in both, there are high expectations and standards for behavior. The difference lies in parental warmth and responsiveness to children's emotional needs.

Authoritative parents' high expectations are communicated with warmth, caring, and emotional responsiveness. Because of this responsiveness to needs, authoritatively parented children have a greater likelihood of developing good emotional control. They develop resilience and can recuperate quickly from setbacks. Authoritarian parents, by contrast, use a cold and non-responsive approach. They view emotion as weakness requiring suppression, so their children do not learn to appropriately manage emotions, often become hostile under pressure, etc.

Authoritative parents encourage children to seek autonomy and independence. Rather than assert tight control, they closely monitor their children’s behavior and correct them as needed. Parental monitoring has been shown to be most effective within the context of a warm, respectful relationship. Without that, it invites rebellion and the stereotypical "wild child."

Authoritarian parents discourage independence - seeking, children are to follow orders. They do not get choices, a say in any family decisionmaking. Authoritative parents discuss and explain rules. They do not issue edicts. Children are taught critical thinking, and understand the reasons behind rules and social contracts, beyond it simply being what is dictated. Because children with authoritative parents are encouraged to take on active roles within the family, and are allowed to speak their minds and participate in decision-making, they are more assertive and have higher greater confidence. Their counterparts become insecure and apprehensive, less independent.

Kids parented in an authoritative manner statistically have better behavioral outcomes, higher academic achievement, are at lower risk of falling prey to peer pressure, have better power relationships, better anger management, overall better mental health, and are much more resilient. Kids raised in authoritarian households lag in these areas.

Your kids are much better off with authoritative parenting than authoritarian.
Yeah, but authoritative parenting requires smarter, less lazy parents.

That is why authoritarian parenting is so popular.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:07 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,637 posts, read 17,373,200 times
Reputation: 37405
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Authoritarian parenting actually has poorer outcomes, behaviorally, than the authoritative style.

Authoritarian and Authoritative parenting are superficially similar in that in both, there are high expectations and standards for behavior. The difference lies in parental warmth and responsiveness to children's emotional needs.

Authoritative parents' high expectations are communicated with warmth, caring, and emotional responsiveness. Because of this responsiveness to needs, authoritatively parented children have a greater likelihood of developing good emotional control. They develop resilience and can recuperate quickly from setbacks. Authoritarian parents, by contrast, use a cold and non-responsive approach. They view emotion as weakness requiring suppression, so their children do not learn to appropriately manage emotions, often become hostile under pressure, etc.

Authoritative parents encourage children to seek autonomy and independence. Rather than assert tight control, they closely monitor their children’s behavior and correct them as needed. Parental monitoring has been shown to be most effective within the context of a warm, respectful relationship. Without that, it invites rebellion and the stereotypical "wild child."

Authoritarian parents discourage independence - seeking, children are to follow orders. They do not get choices, a say in any family decisionmaking. Authoritative parents discuss and explain rules. They do not issue edicts. Children are taught critical thinking, and understand the reasons behind rules and social contracts, beyond it simply being what is dictated. Because children with authoritative parents are encouraged to take on active roles within the family, and are allowed to speak their minds and participate in decision-making, they are more assertive and have higher greater confidence. Their counterparts become insecure and apprehensive, less independent.

Kids parented in an authoritative manner statistically have better behavioral outcomes, higher academic achievement, are at lower risk of falling prey to peer pressure, have better power relationships, better anger management, overall better mental health, and are much more resilient. Kids raised in authoritarian households lag in these areas.

Your kids are much better off with authoritative parenting than authoritarian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Yeah, but authoritative parenting requires smarter, less lazy parents.

That is why authoritarian parenting is so popular.
You both strain to believe that the world is back or white and that a parent is either authoritarian, which meets with your approval, or authoritative, which doesn't. Authoritative parents, you tell us, are either lazy or stupid. Or perhaps just uninformed.
Almost no parent will be wholly one or the other.

Last edited by Listener2307; 12-14-2019 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:31 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 24 days ago)
 
35,728 posts, read 18,073,030 times
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There was a very ground breaking study done about 30 years ago.

5 year olds who were spanked, and kids who were not spanked were asked the question, "Why shouldn't you steal?"

Kids who were not spanked said things like the item doesn't belong to you, you don't want to be stolen from yourself, etc.

Kids who were spanked, by and large said "because you'll get spanked".

Nuff said.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:07 PM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
19,078 posts, read 14,024,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Actually what *worked* did not really work.

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/les...behavior-seen/
Kids should get into a few fistfights growing up.

You just proved my point.
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:53 AM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,965,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Kids should get into a few fistfights growing up.

You just proved my point.
Why? My son never got into any fist fights. I disagree that anyone should get into physical altercations. I would love to hear your reasoning on this.
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Old 12-15-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,255 posts, read 108,215,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
This isn't accurate at all, per current neonatal and pediatric recommendations, actually!

Rooming in is actually becoming more the rule than the exception, as birthing centers in hospitals do away with nurseries altogether outside of NICU settings. The push to keep infants bedside, in their own safe sleeping space but within parental arms' reach, begins in the hospital, now, and the current recommendation once home is either crib in parent room the first 6 months, or bedside bassinet.

New mothers are taught to interpret feeding cues, and feed on demand, told NOT to set up an artifical structure. Infants need to feed frequently, and can't do a normal adult sleep schedule for a long time. A big reason rooming in is done is to start to prep parents for how they will need to hold, comfort, do skin to skin, feed, etc. in the night, rather than send them home having had night nurses do all that while parents sleep, and set them up for a rude awakening, literally. Breastfeeding mothers can't routinely skip night nursing, anyway, or they won't be breastfeeding long.

I had both my infants in bedside bassinets in my room 100% of the time we were in the neonatal unit. At the time, I was partway through my master's in a related area, and talked with my nurses about how great it was that they were aligning with best practices for human development. They said they were kind of having to deal with mothers very upset that they wouldn't just take the baby to the nursery, though.

New parents are emphatically NOT being taught by medical staff to keep their children elsewhere and let them cry or put them on an adult-determined schedule. The AAP recommendations are actually the exact opposite. All the research points directly toward bonding and attachment. Many parents do hear the reverse from online mommy groups, etc., but that's a completely different topic. The medical community isn't pushing it at all.
I know! And there's a very good reason why that practice was abandoned, thank heaven!
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Old 12-15-2019, 10:15 AM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 24 days ago)
 
35,728 posts, read 18,073,030 times
Reputation: 50774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Kids should get into a few fistfights growing up.

You just proved my point.
My kids were born in the 90's, and the common phrases for working out conflict was "use your words". If another kid takes a toy, for example, go get it back by saying that's my toy I want it back. If a kid cuts in line to use the slide, you say "I was here first, you can't cut in line".

One of the moms at the park actively encouraged her preschooler to slug other kids who wronged them. We all honestly couldn't believe it. "Did you allow that kid to just cut in front of you??? Go back there, and push him down" That sort of thing.

Just, no.

I don't think there are any kids on the street who are assaulting people who also weren't assaulted at home. Not many men in prison who weren't whipped a lot.
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Old 12-15-2019, 10:16 AM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
19,078 posts, read 14,024,985 times
Reputation: 21568
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Why? My son never got into any fist fights. I disagree that anyone should get into physical altercations. I would love to hear your reasoning on this.
Because unfortunately we still live in a world where our kids will encounter bad people who may try to physically hurt them in their adult years.

Without a few scraps under their belt during their formative years, they will be totally unprepared for what they may encounter later on. There’s a bug difference between a few karate classes growing up and an actual scuffle where another kid is trying to hurt you. Better to have the proper perspective from earlier experiences than to be totally unprepared for physical adversity.
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