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Since there seem to be several posters who feel strongly about the rights (or lack thereof) of (unmarried) fathers, I thought maybe a separate thread was in order so that Jersey's thread doesn't continue to get hijacked.
What say you? Do unmarried fathers have rights? Should they? Or should they be encouraged to "just walk away" because the mother is ready to move on? Clearly there are cases (ie abuse) when it is best to terminate rights and times when some fathers just abandon their kids no matter how much the mother encourages their participation....but when the father is willing and able to be a part of the child's life...then what?
Fathers do have parental rights. Of course, the touchstone of all parental rights is the best interests of the child. If a father avoids becoming part of a child's life, then the parental decisions are made by the remaining parent (i.e., the mother). Where the father does try to be involved, it is best for the parents to work through parental decisions cooperatively. If they are unable, then they need to get a court involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
And the flip side to that, as inconvenient and annoying as it is, is that women need to give the fathers, if they aren't together, time to catch up and bond. The fact is that men may not bond with a child until they're old enough to talk, play, etc. There needs to be a little leeway there. Not fair perhaps but so it is.
They are both parents and they need to figure out how to work together. If the father avoids contact until a child is old enough to talk, then he has done a disservice to the child and is certainly going to need to put in effort to make up for lost time.
If you're in a committed relationship, you can discuss a less fallible form of contraception, like an IUD or shot. If your SO doesn't want that or it's not possible, then don't skip the condom, regardless. We discussed it and she agreed is not an excuse. Or you can get the snip. You have options. It's ultimately your responsibility, if you want control.
The other thing to do is to actually listen to your partner. I think a lot of the time, people hear what they want to hear and disregard signals either way. But - the only person you have control over is you. And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then you aren't be one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options. And you should be grateful for that and keep your end up at the beginning, so to speak.
Um, I'm a female.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat
fathers have the same rights as mothers. they are every bit as much the parent as the mother is. they should be given every chance to step up and be a dad.
No, father's don't. If that's true, why don't more jobs offer paternity leave? When it comes to custody, why does the mom almost always get primary custody?
You're lying to yourself if you honestly believe that fathers have the same rights as mothers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat
so you're helpless or what? maybe you shouldn't have hit it raw if you didn't want to be a dad.
It's impossible for me to be a dad because I'm a woman and I don't have any kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty
He has every ability to have sex with a condom. Birth control is a 2 way street my friend, not just the realm of the guy. Regardless of the fact that she agrees to it or not he isn't forced to do it. The myth of the "forced father" is just that, a myth. It almost never happens regardless of the crud Father's rights groups want to spew out there. You also might want to think about the fact that only about 50 percent of women under 30 are receiving any child support payments. Seems to me that a lot of women are not even caring that those said boyfriends don't want to pay.
But what your saying with the above is that th father child relationship is less important than the parents getting along.
Even if they fight tooth and nail the CHILDS right to both parents is still more important than deciding to get rid of one of the parents. This is why courts will sometimes assign someone to handle transfers and communications so parents who don't get along won't have to deal with each other.
The problem is those dysfunctional relationships usually bleed out to affect the child as well. In that case I think it's better that one of the parties just vacate themselves from the relationship with the child. I don't care who does it, just someone needs to to ensure the child doesn't grow up as a pawn between parental battles.
And the flip side to that, as inconvenient and annoying as it is, is that women need to give the fathers, if they aren't together, time to catch up and bond. The fact is that men may not bond with a child until they're old enough to talk, play, etc. There needs to be a little leeway there. Not fair perhaps but so it is.
They usually do that. I think most women understand that most men are not incredibly thrilled about infants. I'm a woman and I think infants are dull, so I can sympathize. I haven't really run across any single mothers trying to deny their babys Father access just because he isn't as cuddle as she would like him to be.
No, father's don't. If that's true, why don't more jobs offer paternity leave? When it comes to custody, why does the mom almost always get primary custody?
You're lying to yourself if you honestly believe that fathers have the same rights as mothers.
It's impossible for me to be a dad because I'm a woman and I don't have any kids.
I totally agree with the bolded.
Okay. Doesn't change anything I wrote. You can substitute he and his for you if you like, or just use the generic you.
Okay. Doesn't change anything I wrote. You can substitute he and his for you if you like, or just use the generic you.
Well, maybe I'm not understand what you're saying, but it certainly makes a difference.
"And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then you aren't be one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options."
If I'm the pregnant one, I'm the one that goes through the various options.
Did you forget what you wrote? Changing the you to he/him doesn't do a damn thing.
"If you're in a committed relationship, you can discuss a less fallible form of contraception, like an IUD or shot. If your SO doesn't want that or it's not possible, then don't skip the condom, regardless. We discussed it and she agreed is not an excuse. Or you can get the snip. You have options. It's ultimately your responsibility, if you want control.
The other thing to do is to actually listen to your partner. I think a lot of the time, people hear what they want to hear and disregard signals either way. But - the only person you have control over is you. And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then you aren't be one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options. And you should be grateful for that and keep your end up at the beginning, so to speak."
No, father's don't. If that's true, why don't more jobs offer paternity leave? When it comes to custody, why does the mom almost always get primary custody?
You're lying to yourself if you honestly believe that fathers have the same rights as mothers.
It's impossible for me to be a dad because I'm a woman and I don't have any kids.
I totally agree with the bolded.
Because about 98 percent of custody cases are hashed out outside of the courtroom in which Fathers agree to those terms. In the remaining court cases Judges take the fact that women are usually the primary caregivers of small children into consideration on why they would aware primary custody to women.
Well, maybe I'm not understand what you're saying, but it certainly makes a difference.
"And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then you aren't be one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options."
If I'm the pregnant one, I'm the one that goes through the various options.
Did you forget what you wrote? Changing the you to he/him doesn't do a damn thing.
"If you're in a committed relationship, you can discuss a less fallible form of contraception, like an IUD or shot. If your SO doesn't want that or it's not possible, then don't skip the condom, regardless. We discussed it and she agreed is not an excuse. Or you can get the snip. You have options. It's ultimately your responsibility, if you want control.
The other thing to do is to actually listen to your partner. I think a lot of the time, people hear what they want to hear and disregard signals either way. But - the only person you have control over is you. And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then you aren't be one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options. And you should be grateful for that and keep your end up at the beginning, so to speak."
Why are you angry at me? I don't know what gender you are.
And no it doesn't change what I'm saying. See?
"If he's in a committed relationship, he can discuss a less fallible form of contraception, like an IUD or shot. If his SO doesn't want that or it's not possible, then don't skip the condom, regardless. We discussed it and she agreed is not an excuse. Or he can get the snip. He has options. It's ultimately his responsibility, if he wants control.
The other thing to do is to actually listen to your partner. I think a lot of the time, people hear what they want to hear and disregard signals either way. But - the only person you have control over is you. And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then he isn't the one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options. And he should be grateful for that and keep his end up at the beginning, so to speak."
Why are you angry at me? I don't know what gender you are.
And no it doesn't change what I'm saying. See?
"If he's in a committed relationship, he can discuss a less fallible form of contraception, like an IUD or shot. If his SO doesn't want that or it's not possible, then don't skip the condom, regardless. We discussed it and she agreed is not an excuse. Or he can get the snip. He has options. It's ultimately his responsibility, if he wants control.
The other thing to do is to actually listen to your partner. I think a lot of the time, people hear what they want to hear and disregard signals either way. But - the only person you have control over is you. And if the baby is completely unintended, yet there she is pregnant anyway, then he isn't the one who's going to have to ultimately go through any of the various options. And he should be grateful for that and keep his end up at the beginning, so to speak."
That wasn't anger. If I was angry, I would've either wrote in call caps, used multiple exclamation points, and/or change the font color to red.
Okay, you're right it doesn't change what you're saying. >>>"Well, maybe I'm not understand what you're saying, but it certainly makes a difference."
That wasn't anger. If I was angry, I would've either wrote in call caps, used multiple exclamation points, and/or change the font color to red.
Okay, you're right it doesn't change what you're saying. >>>"Well, maybe I'm not understand what you're saying, but it certainly makes a difference."
Dude, I'm not arguing with you over nothing.
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