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You'll have to find what he loves best and use that as reward/punishment. You also are getting to far ahead, at four it is hard to concieve of time.
Another suggestion. Do you have alone time, just you and him? Lots of kids regress when they are competing for attention w/ a younger sibling. Take him alone....Special days w/ you, and w/ Dad. Just for him. Could be just a walk around the block, or a trip to the park...Whatever. A couple hours a week for just him.
It is the tricky part, making your child know that you love him, but dislike the behaviors. A fine line. It sounds as though he has sort of given up when he says "Fine, I don't want to go anyway"
Short term consequences, when kids are small are more effective. IMO He does something, right then there are consequences, not the ellusive "later today"....
What I would do. Sit him up for success...because if he keeps getting the most attention for doing the bad things, he'll keep doing those....
For instance:
Start your weekend early. Get up before him. Have a small task for him, feed the dog....put the spoons on the table for cereal...whatever, something easy and attainable. Kudos when he does it. Now....We get to go swimming today.....If he messes up, then take away the outting....The idea being he has earned his reward....he may invest in keeping it.
Kids desperately need rountines. Saturday, Sunday....Do exactly the same things. Get up early, start a small chore list...make him successful....He'll take pride in that....NO treats, just words of praise. Wow, You are awesome, what a great big brother you are. I really like how you did that. Can you show Mom how you got those toys all picked up so fast. Whatever, praise him.
Remember, your two year old is watching everything, you are essentially teaching both of them how to behave at the same time.
Another thing that works great to redirect kids. Start your day w/ laughter. Call them into your bedroom bright and early and just do fun things like let them crawl all over you and your hubby, waking Daddy up, etc. a little play time, getting the laughter started.
My Mom used to do leg exercises, we kids would be laughing and trying to catch her foot while she did her leg lifts...whatever, just be sponteneous and silly. Kids get silly just playing w/ their parents, it will sit the tone for the day.....
Like the other poster said....I also popped my kids on the butt if they needed it. Different kids need different things. I raised 5, and had one that I could just say in a cross voice..Daniel...bla, bla....And that kid never repeated whatever had gotten him into trouble.
I had my two youngest, two years apart....one would lie the other would swear to it....It was very hard. It took lots of on task on my part...it can/did get exhausting.
I did the time outs, struggled w/ those w/ my ADHD child. I litterally had to physically had to hold him and force him into time-outs....this under a therapist directions. It worked....not suggesting your child has any isses like my sons, just to demonstrate sometimes depending on the child time-outs are not working. Gotta tweak any situation, you know your child.
He sounds very smart.....The trick is for you to channel this, the smartest kids are sometimes the hardest until you figure out what makes them tick. Once you figure out what makes this kid excited, what praise he seeks...you'll be on the way to total success with him.
Kids want to please, it is natural. Find something he does that please you....Be excited, laugh out loud.....He will want to do that again...His abilities to do the right things will grow as he ages. Give him success, give him lots of positive reinforcement, don't just say the words...Grab him and say how proud of his behavior you are, big smiles....
Aside...You mentioned not wanting to punish yourself. Thems the breaks....As a parent it can suck that when we put them on timeouts we ourselves are on timeouts. Inconsistent punishment is the worst reinforcement for bad behaviors.
RE: hitting the younger brother. You have got to reinforce some empathy from him towards his little brother. Does he help teach the little guy things. Does he protect his little brother from others, say at daycare etc.
Get some books, or some good movies that have a story line about brothers. Teach him what brothers mean...this is a perfect time for him to start figuring things out.
You sound like a good, caring Mom/Parent. I applaud you for reaching out. Sure wish we had had this type thing in the 80's...My life as a parent might have been easier lol
Thanks, we are trying.
Thanks for the advice and tips. I appreciate ALL of it! Gives me a lot of tools to work with.
OP, I did not read any responses - just your first post.
I totally feel your pain. Ours is almost 6 and is crazy willfull. He did and does the same things you describe of your son. He's always been that way and we told ourselves it was a phase until we had to face the music and admit he is just opositional. He does better with structure - just like yours, but is far from good, very far. And, he does go through worse times in terms of listening and better times. But it's never, ever been good. Moreover, it's not just at home. All people who interact with him tell us about the issues (that we already know exist but hope will be different or change if he's around others) - I'm talking his pre school teachers, camp counselors, even my brother has said that when his kids play with our kid that our kid just doesn't listen to them (they are older). It's everyone really. He does have a good amount of amazing qualities that I like though so there is something to hold on to.
I tried telling myself that he's a boy and has tons of energy. Which is true. But, the sad fact is that even when compared to other high energy boys, he outshines them in every way - and it's not a good type of outshines if you're catchin' what I'm throwin'.
Anywhoo, I won't go into a long diatribe of advice. I have read a lot of books and for the most part I like reading them, but most haven't really helped. I still like reading them because it makes me feel better to be affirmed and to know I'm not the only one. It's weird, he gets a thrill testing people. Especially those in authority, and not just us - people he doesn't know. Kids are supposed to be afraid when authority figures they don't know tell them to do somethign or stop doing something but our boy (God love him!) seeks out authority figures just to do something he knows is bad so they'll correct him and he can then do it again. And yeah, I feel ya OP - we missed a lot of parties and other things because of it, it can really suck big time.
There are 2 books that did provide some help. Setting Limits With Strong Willed CHildren and 123 magic. I used those in combination and they are OK but I don't think any book will be great. Know why? Because I just want my kid to be a good boy and listen better instead of a science project. The thing is that it's dangerous. He knows he's not supposed to run in the street so he tests by (your guessed it) running in the friggin' street! THe techniques in Setting Limits With Strong Willed CHildren do work OK if we stick hard to them but it really sucks bad because we can't enjoy him when sticking to protocal and we need t stick to protocal for it to have an effect.
If it makes you feel any better, it's hard to imagine there is a kid out there who is more willfull than mine but regardless we all do our best.
Okay well now we have a new development. What do I do wth this? So now, we have been setting the limit and holdng it tight with the four year old. But now he is hitting me, swinging at me, screaming at me...almost like its backfired. He gets immediate consequences now and the reins are tight. I know he is testing us (me) now to see if I will follow thru. What do I do about him hitting, etc. Keep doing what I am doing? Do I stay consistent like this? Im not spanking and dont feel we are being really unreasonable. I just think he really doesnt like this whole "not putting up with your attitude" phase.
Anytime a child is hurting another person, child or adult, consistency and immediate action is the key.
Stop the hit before the child can actually do it (sometimes you will miss, but most of the time, you can see it coming and stop it). Acknowledge the anger: "You are very angry about...., but I won't let you hit me (or another person if he is hitting his brother).
Hold his hand firmly, but gently. Say *we touch people with gentle hands* and show him what you mean by gentle hands. You might want to read Hands are Not for Hitting to give him other things he can do with his hands as well.
Remove him from the situation (not as punishment, but so that he cannot return to it immediately). Don't play with him for at least a few minutes.
Return him to the situation after he is calm and let him try again.
Anytime a child is hurting another person, child or adult, consistency and immediate action is the key.
Stop the hit before the child can actually do it (sometimes you will miss, but most of the time, you can see it coming and stop it). Acknowledge the anger: "You are very angry about...., but I won't let you hit me (or another person if he is hitting his brother).
Hold his hand firmly, but gently. Say *we touch people with gentle hands* and show him what you mean by gentle hands. You might want to read Hands are Not for Hitting to give him other things he can do with his hands as well.
Remove him from the situation (not as punishment, but so that he cannot return to it immediately). Don't play with him for at least a few minutes.
Return him to the situation after he is calm and let him try again.
I did try this...I grabbed him, put him on his bed and actually straddled him and held his arms down. He sort of settled but was still really upset. But the other times he swung at me I was putting him in his carseat. He NEVER hit me, or anyone else in the family before. But boy is he ANGRY. If he doesnt listen and do as we ask - time out. If he gets out of bed after lights out we take his water sippy. If he flips out after that, we take his stuffed animals. Didnt set the table like we asked? No TV time. And he has chances to earn these things back but how do I offer this (earning stuff back)?
On a normal day up until I wrote this post he was having a short time out once a day or so with lots and lots of reminding, redirection, threats, warnngs. Now, he has had several longer time outs in his room which is now just his bed and very few (if any) warnings and I make no threats now because he knew I wouldnt follow thru.
Is this better? Is his reaction so crazy because we are actually showing him we mean business now?
Parents who adamantly refuse to spank and complain about their kids' behavior are like a person who refuses to visit the dentist complaining about a toothache.
I did try this...I grabbed him, put him on his bed and actually straddled him and held his arms down. He sort of settled but was still really upset. But the other times he swung at me I was putting him in his carseat. He NEVER hit me, or anyone else in the family before. But boy is he ANGRY. If he doesnt listen and do as we ask - time out. If he gets out of bed after lights out we take his water sippy. If he flips out after that, we take his stuffed animals. Didnt set the table like we asked? No TV time. And he has chances to earn these things back but how do I offer this (earning stuff back)?
On a normal day up until I wrote this post he was having a short time out once a day or so with lots and lots of reminding, redirection, threats, warnngs. Now, he has had several longer time outs in his room which is now just his bed and very few (if any) warnings and I make no threats now because he knew I wouldnt follow thru.
Is this better? Is his reaction so crazy because we are actually showing him we mean business now?
NO, that is NOT how you do it. You do not straddle him and hold his arms down (unless you know how to restrain a child in a safe restraint hold, you should not be doing this).
You seriously need to start paying attention to his good behavior rather than escalating all this punishment. Time-outs should never be more than a few minutes to allow him to calm down.
I think that the concept of prevention is often overlooked when discussing "discipline." The idea is to prevent inappropriate behaviors before they occur, rather than reacting after they do occur. One thing that's very helpful for most children is to have a predictable routine, both on a day-to-day basis, and for individual activities (mealtimes, bedtime, travel, etc.), preferably one that gives the child participation in the process. Kids feel their lack of personal volition acutely, so building in some choices (e.g. "We're going to the store and to the post office. Which one do you want to go to first?" "Do you want to wear your red shoes or your white shoes?") can help. So can providing plenty of warning before transitions. "In ten minutes it'll be time for a bath." "Okay, five minutes until bathtime, now."
On a separate note, while diagnoses can be helpful in understanding behaviors and connecting with resources to deal with them - and can certainly be helpful in getting support in school - it's important to remember that children hit developmental milestones at very different rates, and that a degree of one-step-forward-two-steps-back is normal. "It's just a phase" may be cliche, but it's long-lasting patterns of behavior that merit behavioral diagnoses, and those can be hard to establish in young children.
You should reward the kid with a treat if he doesn't yell, kick, scream, shout, etc. for a whole day. But you should never, ever punish a child. It makes a child very nervous and might just make the situation worse.
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