Arranged marriage (ideas, teenagers, pregnancy, daughter)
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Where do you get the idea that that is the "Christian" tradition?? Lots of arranged marriages in the Muslim and Jewish traditions, and probably others, are exactly the same. It's a modern thing, not a Christian thing, and it's more related to culture than religion.
He was explaining that in the Christian tradition, both spouses had to give their consent to the marriage, which is obviously not the case in the Muslim and some other traditions where the arrangement is imposed.
I knew a Korean couple who were in an arranged marriage and they defended that tradition and pointed out the lower divorce rate, said their parents chose carefully -- but also as Christians, both she and he could have declined the choice the parents made. They also pointed out that when parents choose, they tend to choose among their own social circle and from families of similar beliefs which would help as far as compatibility.
They felt Americans marry out of infatuation and also often select marriage partners from strangers - people who they have nothing much in common with.
I think arranged marriages work out -- in many countries but they will never get off the ground in the USA. It's not our culture.
I can't imagine letting my parents pick my spouse. They didn't know anything about my beliefs or my goals by the time I was 18, they only heard what they wanted to hear and dismissed everything else I said as teenage hormones. I was raised with strict religious parents. Interestingly, one of my sisters is now pagan, as I am, and my other sister is agnostic. It felt like our parents' religious views were a form of brainwashing and we couldn't wait to be old enough to be free. If my parents had picked a spouse and forced me to marry him, I would have gotten a divorce as soon as I was able.
I was going to say that I don't think this would work in the US because we don't have a strong culture and values system. Unfortunately, Hedgehog Mom's parenting experience is typical. Parents don't really know their children and don't understand what their needs are.
I know exactly what personality type my daughter is attracted to. We are using this time (early teens) to help her learn how to find a good spouse. We are fortunate that most of our extended family provides lots of examples of who not to marry. Both my parents have been married 3x. My husbands parents, while still married, have never gotten along. It has been good for her to see the results of choosing the wrong spouse on both sides. Divorce has meant that holidays and family traditions are virtually non-existant on that side of the family. And on the other side, she gets to see what it is like to be married to someone you don't like or respect. Helping your kids learn from other's mistakes is a really valuable lesson.
I have known several Christian families whose parents believed in arranged marriages who actually never found a husband "good enough" for the daughter. I was recently having a conversation with a woman in her thirties who still lived at home and viewed her dad as her protector and the one who would find her a spouse. It really made me ill that she wanted to be married but was still trusting dad to do the right thing but didn't see that he wasn't. Another family, the Dad was incredibly protective over his three daughters and I believe at least two of them never married (last I heard..they should be in their late 30's/early 40's now) and became missionaries. Some Dad's are SUPER over-protective and don't think anyone is good enough. The daughters don't realize there are plenty of good men out there. These girls were all beautiful and intelligent.
One thing I've been wondering about: who on earth thinks of these things when they think of people dating? Who thinks "carnage" when they think of their child dating? Anyone?
"Have a good time Sarah. Don't have an abortion or bring home a disease and be home by midnight."
Unfortunately, though, girls do have abortions and get diseases from making bad choices regarding sex. Teens hormones are raging and they don't always think with their heads. That's why they have parents. To help guide them through making good decisions. Just because you don't think about your daughter getting pregnant when she's a teenager doesn't mean she won't. Not thinking about it is just putting your head in the sand.
One of my best friends in college met his wife on his wedding day (he was married when I knew him). They are still happily married thirty years later.
I've long believed that what most would call "arranged marriage" is preferable to the contemporary circus of random, hormone-fueled "dating" with all of the emotional and physical (e.g., diseases, abortions, fatherless children) carnage it entails. Arranged marriage in the Christian tradition, as opposed to the pagan and Islamic, requires the full consent of spouses - these are not forced marriages, but rather guided marriages in which the young willingly accept the greater wisdom and judgement of their parents. True, there have been abuses over the centuries, but were these abuses any worse that what we're doing now?
"Experts also ask whether there are lessons in how arranged marriages evolve that can be applied to nonarranged marriages in the United States. Among them is Robert Epstein, a senior research psychologist at the American Institute for Behavior Research and Technology ...
He found that one key to a strong arranged marriage is the amount of parental involvement at its start. The most important thing parents of the couple do, he said, is to 'screen for deal breakers.' 'They’re trying to figure out whether something could go wrong that could drive people apart,' Dr. Epstein said. Some couples who have entered into satisfying arranged marriages do attribute the success of their unions to the involvement of their parents."
While traditional arranged marriage may not become mainstream anytime soon, there is a fertile "middle ground" where young people enter into marriages with greater deference to parental wisdom and influence.
There's a lot you're not considering here.
Look at most societies that practice arranged marriage, and you immediately see they have some features in common:
1) Women have few legal rights. In the US, almost 75% of divorce actions are initiated by women. Are we to believe that women in rural Pakistan, for example, divorce rarely because they are happier in their arranged marriages than women in the US? I doubt it. More likely, they don't divorce because they can't.
2) The marriage relationship itself is often understood as a purely functional one. Each partner has a role to play. They play it. End of story. No one really cares if they love each other or want to be together. It is almost besides the point.
3) Strong social stigma attaches itself to people who divorce, especially women and, in many cases, their children. Divorced women are pariahs. Do we really want that?
4) Economic opportunities for women are often limited. They stay in arranged marriages because the have no economic options.
Look at most societies that practice arranged marriage, and you immediately see they have some features in common:
1) Women have few legal rights. In the US, almost 75% of divorce actions are initiated by women. Are we to believe that women in rural Pakistan, for example, divorce rarely because they are happier in their arranged marriages than women in the US? I doubt it. More likely, they don't divorce because they can't.
It's a pretty big extrapolation to assume that because women in the US are the primary instigators in divorce that they are divorcing simply because they can. The implication with this idea is that women are necessarily more discontent and less loyal than men are. There is certainly a good reason that more women file for divorce. But it isn't because we are less able to handle commitment or that we value relationships less.
I personally believe that it's because we have been fed a lie. We are told that we can have it all, when in fact we can't. We can't be the perfect mother, the perfect boss or employee, the perfect housewife. We CANNOT do it all. And we are the ones who bear the brunt of the stress created by trying to be everything to everyone. The men can compartmentalize. The men don't feel as guilty. Women don't divorce because we don't like marriage, but because we can't live up to the standards that society has set for us. So we fail at something. Sometimes it's our job, sometimes our kids but usually it's our marriage.
Edited to add: Your premise also supposes that either 75% of husbands are bad husbands - which I also don't believe - or the marriage was a bad match to begin with...which shows that something different must be done with marriage. Given my previous reasons against arranged marriages, what about pre-marital counseling for couples. I wonder what that does to the statistics? Especially if you use something like the MBTI for compatibility.
He was explaining that in the Christian tradition, both spouses had to give their consent to the marriage, which is obviously not the case in the Muslim and some other traditions where the arrangement is imposed.
I knew a Korean couple who were in an arranged marriage and they defended that tradition and pointed out the lower divorce rate, said their parents chose carefully -- but also as Christians, both she and he could have declined the choice the parents made. They also pointed out that when parents choose, they tend to choose among their own social circle and from families of similar beliefs which would help as far as compatibility.
They felt Americans marry out of infatuation and also often select marriage partners from strangers - people who they have nothing much in common with.
People often say that it is too easy to divorce. I have long held that it is too easy to marry. The decision point that was in error was not to fail to stay together but to get married in the first place. That said, I don't think, by and large, that parents have any greater wisdom to choose than the children.
My hope for my children is not that they fail to get divorced. That bar is miserably low. My hope is for true partnership, passionate and enduring love. And that does not come solely from the selection of ones mate but every step, every choice, every word of THEIR lives.
One thing I think parents can do, and I was lucky that my parents did, was model the kind of relationship you think is best. Model respect, honest communication, fighting to solve not to win, apologizing. Show your children your mad, crazy love for your spouse so that they see it is possible.
It's a pretty big extrapolation to assume that because women in the US are the primary instigators in divorce that they are divorcing simply because they can. The implication with this idea is that women are necessarily more discontent and less loyal than men are. There is certainly a good reason that more women file for divorce. But it isn't because we are less able to handle commitment or that we value relationships less.
I think you misunderstood me completely.
I work in family law. I know for a fact that in the vast majority of cases, women struggle much harder than men to save their marriages. Furthermore, women are far more likely to try and stay on good terms with an ex after a divorce, even if it means foregoing child support, to which their children are entitled. Divorce is the last recourse women turn to, not the first.
My point was, given the fact women often have to file for divorce anyway after all other options are exhausted, can we really believe women in arranged marriages are less likely to do so? I think that is implausible. More likely, they just have fewer legal options.
I work in family law. I know for a fact that in the vast majority of cases, women struggle much harder than men to save their marriages. Furthermore, women are far more likely to try and stay on good terms with an ex after a divorce, even if it means foregoing child support, to which their children are entitled. Divorce is the last recourse women turn to, not the first.
My point was, given the fact women often have to file for divorce anyway after all other options are exhausted, can we really believe women in arranged marriages are less likely to do so? I think that is implausible. More likely, they just have fewer legal options.
You are so right. Women file more often because they are more often the financially vulnerable party. While the separation drags on and on, the one left behind to maintain the household and family is unfairly burdened, and lacks security...this is usually the wife.
After my ex left, he kept saying he would file but never did. Why would he? He had nothing to lose from the ambiguity. Meanwhile I was living in the family home, he had stopped paying bills and was not providing any child support. It was not possible for me to sustain this on one salary. Meanwhile, he bought a house with his girlfriend and was spending our joint assets on that.
I had no choice but to file as I stood to lose much more--the roof over my head. Once we had a legal separation agreement, he had no choice but to sign the house over to me so I could refinance it (and pay him his half of the value.) He had to pay his share of the debt and he had to start paying to support his children.
That is why women (especially mothers) file for divorce more than men.
Unfortunately, though, girls do have abortions and get diseases from making bad choices regarding sex. Teens hormones are raging and they don't always think with their heads. That's why they have parents. To help guide them through making good decisions. Just because you don't think about your daughter getting pregnant when she's a teenager doesn't mean she won't. Not thinking about it is just putting your head in the sand.
Most parents do not have their head in the sand concerning these things. They were, at one time, dating, hormonal teenagers themselves.
But millions of people get married without the "carnage" referred to by the OP. To use that particular justification for arranged marriages seems more than a little extreme to me. And odd.
There's a BIG difference between helping your child make good decisions and wanting to control them so much they enter into a marriage you arranged because you think the world is full of this carnage. There is also the point where parents actually trust their child when they are out on dates. Perhaps people like the OP don't trust the children they raised?
Never mind the fact that the perspective bride and groom can get in a quickie or two or ten before the marriage. Unless the parent is planning on making sure everyone remains a virgin until the wedding night. Which puts a new spin on the word controlling. And is, IMHO, more than a little creepy.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 01-26-2013 at 08:51 AM..
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