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Thanks, I was trying to articulate that it is both-and. Her daughter has problem areas AND also at this same exact moment in time must have something in her that is a positive (not something that will be a positive after she works at it, which is also very important but a different thing). Not something arbitrary and meaningless like hair color or nail polish, but something in her current personality and behavior. It is very possible that we just haven't heard about it here, even if it is recognized at home IRL.
You stated it much more eloquently than I did, so thank you. All kids have personality traits that are likeable, and IMO, there's nothing wrong with a parent celebrating those. If that's empty praise, then so be it I guess.
IME, there is no such thing as a totally unlikeable person, unless one is engaging in a lot of all or none thinking. There is a difference between someone struggling with a lot of ineffective behaviors (that can be worked with) and someone who is unlikeable (not a useful stance for problem solving). I think what posters are trying to get Ivory to do is to articulate strengths her daughter has currently as-is, even as she is also struggling with a number of other problem behaviors. Sometimes in life it is easy to overlook the positives when we are so focused on trying to fix the other problems, y'know?
There is such a thing as unlikable behavior. Which is the problem Ivory is trying to address. She isn't likable right now, sometimes it isn't a deep rooted issue with a parent or sibling. Sometime, the deep rooted problem is caused by a behavioral issue with the child, it creates bad relations with others.
What you are doing is not getting her to articulate strengths of her daughter because she's done that already, many times.
I don't think she has overlooked positives her daughter could present, or that she is wishing she would present, I think that's all she has been doing. IE. I ask her why she isn't showing the music teacher how talented she is, if she would study she'd score high because she is a smart kid.
The problem is you don't WANT to see that. All I see is you overlooking the positive traits that she likes about her daughter, Ivory isn't overlooking anything but your attitude. I'm still puzzled as to why you are spot lighting something that really isn't an issue, what I'm assuming isn't very attractive so I won't assume.
OK. But you didn't address most of what I posted. you need to look at what you are doing and decide if it is making her issues better or worse, and what you could do differently. You can't change your daughter, but you can change how you deal with her and help her deal with the hand she's been dealt (that would be whatever sort of mental health issues she has).
Ths is what I know from the doctors she's seen. I didn't do this. She was born this way. Sadly, the time to correct it was before we realized she had a problem. We thought she'd outgrow it. We thought it was a stage. With help, she could have outgrown it but help needs to be in place long before the age of 12. Now it's an issue of teaching her to function in spite of her issues. Hence, counseling for dd. Unfortunately, it is looking more and more like she's going to have to hit rock bottom to realize she needs to change herself to change what's happening in her life. That is a scary place for a mother to stand when her dd is only 17.
Things are better since switching schools. She seems to care a little more about what peers think here but she still goes for shock value now and again which makes both of us look bad. I fear it's too little too late. She hasn't formed any strong friendships. That's what she needs. To have another teen in her life whose opinion she actually cares about. She did have a boyfriend she really liked but she went for shock value with PDA's and his parents put an end to them seeing each other. Of course, in her mind, it wasn't anything SHE did. They just don't like ber because she's not from the area. Even when she loses big, she fails to see how her own actions contributed to the loss.
Gotta be careful with those. They aren't regulated all that well and there are a lot that will promise parents the moon for 20K with no evidence that it will actually yield results. The kids I used to work with were frequently ones whose parents had tried boot camp and found the same exact problems were still there afterwards. Not saying don't think about it, just be careful.
There is such a thing as unlikable behavior. Which is the problem Ivory is trying to address. She isn't likable right now, sometimes it isn't a deep rooted issue with a parent or sibling. Sometime, the deep rooted problem is caused by a behavioral issue with the child, it creates bad relations with others.
What you are doing is not getting her to articulate strengths of her daughter because she's done that already, many times.
I don't think she has overlooked positives her daughter could present, or that she is wishing she would present, I think that's all she has been doing. IE. I ask her why she isn't showing the music teacher how talented she is, if she would study she'd score high because she is a smart kid.
The problem is you don't WANT to see that. All I see is you overlooking the positive traits that she likes about her daughter, not her actually. I'm still puzzled as to why, what I'm assuming isn't very attractive so I won't assume.
I'm actually not assuming anything, poppy. I was trying to explain to you what I thought other posters were asking of her. I am not judging Ivory on this thread. And there is a difference between saying someone would be good at if...and acknowledging their current state of being. Of course there are unlikeable behaviors. If you re-read my post you'll not see me say otherwise.
The thread title is misleading.
This isn't about sibling rivalry.
This kid has a problem with *everyone*.
I think she needs to be taken out of her current environment and go somewhere and do something for other people for a while. Less fortunate people. Whether that's Peace Corps or Amigos de las Americas or whatever...she needs to get out of the limelight, get into a sink-or-swim-we're-not-here-to-put-up-with-your-b.s. environment and learn a little bit about the real world and herself.
We aren't talking about LOVE. We should all be able to find something, even just one small thing that we LIKE about our kids. Not love, LIKE. 2 different things.
She has, several times. Re read her posts. I truly don't see any reason for this question to be asked but for the belittling effect it has. She has mentioned her daughters strengths several times.
But the issue is her behavior disorder, not if Ivory really likes or loves her daughter.
Ths is what I know from the doctors she's seen. I didn't do this. She was born this way. Sadly, the time to correct it was before we realized she had a problem. We thought she'd outgrow it. With help, she could have but help needs to be in place long before the age of 12. Now it's an issue of teaching her to function in spite of her issues. Hence, counseling for dd. Unfortunately, it is looking more and more like she's going to have to hit rock bottom to realize she needs to change herself to change what's happening in her life. That is a scary place for a mother to stand when her dd is only 17.
Things are better since switching schools. She seems to care a little more about what peers think here but she still goes for shock value now and again which makes both of us look bad. I fear it's too little too late.
Post after post after post, you still refuse to mention something meaningfully positive about your DD1. All you can do is come back with "yes but here's more negatives and why stuff isn't working" What about her IS likeable? What? And why is it so difficult for you to say anything good. Anything at all?
The thread title is misleading.
This isn't about sibling rivalry.
This kid has a problem with *everyone*.
I think she needs to be taken out of her current environment and go somewhere and do something for other people for a while. Less fortunate people. Whether that's Peace Corps or Amigos de las Americas or whatever...she needs to get out of the limelight, get into a sink-or-swim-we're-not-here-to-put-up-with-your-b.s. environment and learn a little bit about the real world and herself.
I agree, both your posts were more accurate to me. The daughter has behavioral problems. She might need some perspective and counseling to help manage them.
This explains why she shadows her attempted accomplishments with disappointment, regardless of her strengths. People just can't see clearly when it comes to mental issues, if it were physical it would be a lot clearer to others.
There is such a thing as unlikable behavior. Which is the problem Ivory is trying to address. She isn't likable right now, sometimes it isn't a deep rooted issue with a parent or sibling. Sometime, the deep rooted problem is caused by a behavioral issue with the child, it creates bad relations with others.
What you are doing is not getting her to articulate strengths of her daughter because she's done that already, many times.
I don't think she has overlooked positives her daughter could present, or that she is wishing she would present, I think that's all she has been doing. IE. I ask her why she isn't showing the music teacher how talented she is, if she would study she'd score high because she is a smart kid.
The problem is you don't WANT to see that. All I see is you overlooking the positive traits that she likes about her daughter, Ivory isn't overlooking anything but your attitude. I'm still puzzled as to why you are spot lighting something that really isn't an issue, what I'm assuming isn't very attractive so I won't assume.
Thank you!!!!
I'm not sure what the nay sayers want me to say that's going to make a difference.
If I tell my dd she's smart and can do well if she studies, in her mind, the fact I told her to study means I really don't think she's smart because if I REALLY thought she was smart, I'd think she could do it without studying... I'm really damned if I do and damned if I don't here. Ditto for pointing out that she plays the clarinet well enough to have gotten the band teacher's attention but that doing well requires practice. Again, telling her to practice is like telling her she's no good. She wants the success without the effort. She wants it to be instant. And the world is UNFAIR when it's not.
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