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I need some serious advice here regarding my 14 year old niece. The below is from an email I received from my sister. A brief overview of their family. My sister divorced their father 10 years ago due to infidelity and mental abuse. She has full custody and allows the father to see the kids whenever he wants. They live three hours from one another. He doesn't call or come to see the kids. He hasn't seen the kids since last summer '06. He doesn't call at holidays and refuses to pay child support for his three kids. He left his job and must be getting paid under the table to support himself. He uses the kids as pawns and forces them to call their mother a slu* when they're at his house. They're forced to call her horrible names. My sister recently learned this through her oldest daughter (16). The youngest child, a boy is 9.
She's a single mom on an extremely limited income and trying to be both parents and make up for their father's shortcomings. My kids are 8 and 4 so we are unsure how to advise my sister. Any ideas would be greatly helpful!!
My sister's email
I am having a heavy heart and just not sure what to do. I am continuing to have problems with "Marie". I have even increased her medication to see if that would help. She isn't so much depressed as just downright defiantant to authority and mean.
When I tell her to do something, she will tell me No to my face, or when she wanted a cell phone for her birthday and I told her she couldn't have this, she wouldn't talk to me for days because "I didn't get her what she wanted for her birthday". Yet her father gave her nothing and she was ok with that. When I told her I wasn't getting her the phone she said, "Oh you will".
She almost got in a fight at school the other day for being so mean. Perhaps this is all my fault. Perhaps I have just been a terrible parent. I have tried counseling and medicine with her. Nothing seems to work. She is constantly grounded and simply breaks the rules over and over again until she gets caught. Simple stuff like not being on the phone after 10 pm. Just downright defiant. And then there is the possible stealing issue!
I found a Christian camp for troubled teen girls in Wyoming. I have looked into this sort of thing before but they are outrageous. This one has student loans. It is like $250-$300 a day! I have talked to her father about taking her but he wouldn't give me any visitation. He already said that he can do whatever her wants with her when he has here. I don't like this. Anyone have ANY OTHER Ideas??
I am at the bottom of my rope and just can't go on. Three kids is too much for me right now. And I dont want them to pay the price as adults. I am a failure.
Again, any advice anyone may have would be extremely helpful. Unfortunately we live about 14 hours from my sister so we only see each other once a year but talk on the phone regularly and email. She and I are very close and I would do anything to help her out. I've even talked to my wife about having our niece move up here for the school year to see if that would help. We have an extra bedroom so she'd have her own space. Your thoughts on this idea too please.
Hoosier, all teens are defiant, BUT it sounds like your sister has been beaten down and believes it's all her fault. It isn't. MANY children come through a childhood without their Dad and they are just fine so Sis shouldn't have any regrets about leaving a man like their Dad.
IF you sincerely feel in your heart that you can help, consider it. But I have to let you know that I have a family member who is NPD with ASPD tendencies. Medication does not help the disorder so the fact that meds are doing nothing make me wonder about your neice. Some of the things you've mentioned are signs of the disorder~defiant, gaslighting (making Mom feel guilty and everything is HER fault and Mom is just a crazy, awful parent), the feeling of ME~entitlement. Mom isn't giving me what I DESERVE and I'll get it one way or another. I'll harass her until she gives me what I DESERVE.
Were there signs of any of this since childhood? Was she a happy, smiling, laughing child or was there always something a bit "different"? Things like I won't play nice, I don't want to be held and cuddled, my life is awful and it's your fault, I deserve better then this, I'm better then everyone, I should've been born to "BETTER" people, I'm smarter then everyone else, etc.
I won't be around for a while, but I'll be back to follow this thread. I'm very curious as to how this turns out. Sorry that my post is such a downer, but it's something to consider. Nearly 10% of our population has a mental disorder or a personality disorder. I believe it's actually something like 2% of the population that are full blown ASPDs. And they're family members of a few of us here.
I can understand the frustration that your sister has with her daughter. As many are aware, my son, now 19 really changed during his last two years in school and as soon as he graduated, moved out with 'his friends'. Needless to say, after 8 months living like hoodlums and getting into trouble, he came home. I put him in Christian rehab program and thankfully now he is doing so much better.
Hoose, from your post, your neice is taking medication. Do you know what for or what it is? Have your sister to find out if she is also expermenting with drugs. AT this age, one cannot rule anything out or say my child would never....cause they will and they do.
I also believe she has reached that period in which all teens reach where authority figures are suddenly enemies. I don't know if our society is promoting this or what, but I see it in many of our young people. The good and the bad ones.
She is punishing your sister for not getting her what she wants, but if you scratch around the surface and dig deeper the underlying cause might be how she is treated at school. So many of todays kids have cell phones at early ages, and with her not having one, she might be a target of ridicule at school. As you said, the mother is doing the best she can, but kids can be so very cruel and your neice could be the subject of much not just the lack of phone.
I would hesitate to bring her to live with you full time. It would have been better to have had her over a week or so during the summer, to guage, how she is around a male authority figure. I know you love her, but how she presents herself in your home will affect YOUR children more than you can imagine.
There are many programs available via church affiliations that are either low cost or no charge for troubled teens. These might not be close to your sister, but still worth checking out.
Is your neice in counceling at the moment? If not, your sister needs to be encouraged to find a good christian councelor and take her. The evualation will give her an idea of what is going on.
I wish I could say more, but without knowing anymore than I do, it is hard to determine what would be best for them.
Just know, when you bring another child into your home, it will disrupt your whole household. I have been there and done that as well. At the age of 16, she will not be happy with rules, will probably take every opportunity to break them and who knows what she would say to your children. This will in turn make you angry and frustrated, pulling you out of your normal behavior, and allowing your children to see you in a situation that you cannot control. Not a good place to be in, I can say from experience.
I feel for your sister and neice, and for you. With the health issues you have been facing with your son, I don't think this extra stress would be good for any of you. I am so very sorry for the whole situation and will pray for all.
I was a terror teenager, and I have a few immediate thoughts on this.
First, I had a thyroid, PCOS and pituitary gland problem when I was a teenager without even knowing it. This made me extremely emotional and, I feel, do things I would never have done if I was in a rational state of mind. I'd take this girl to a doctor and make sure that she's hormonally balanced. I know you're a guy, and probably didn't want to hear this, but if her cycle's off, that's the first clue. Weight gain/loss is the second.
If I understand your post correctly, the kids are not seeing their father anymore? I think that supervised visits AT THE MOST are in order at this point. He's only making things worse for them and is a horrible influence.
I would think that this girl feels deep down (even if she doesn't admit it) that she lacks two things: control and love. A teenaged girl needs unconditional love from her father. Her father's out of the picture, but her heavenly father is not. The day she realizes that her heavenly father loves her so much more than any earthly man could, the better she is. I'll try to think up some strategies, but the love issue needs to be addressed. The loss of control would result in destructive behavior. When a teen is hurting themself physically, emotionally, or through other means, they're a) trying to gain control where they feel they've lost it, and b) crying out for help. I'm not at all saying that this girl should have control over her life, but think of the things going on that she can't control.
I, too, was forced into counseling as a teen. My dramatic turnaround came after receiving treatment for my hormone problems, after my family began attending a new church and dramatically changed (eating together, demonstrating love to one another, started consistently enforcing rules while considering my in the process), my father sincerely asked for my forgiveness in the ways that he caused my behavior, and most importantly, I sought out my own relationship with Jesus Christ. My parents pulled me out of the school I was at and I did a video homeschool program and worked two jobs the last two years of high school. It got me away from the bad crowd and gave me responsibility (parents still dropped me off/picked me up until I proved responsible enough). I have always loved art, and I remember drawing/painting constantly during this transformation. It was something my entire family celebrated and encouraged me in. These are just random events coming to mind at this time. My extended family did show me a lot of support. This girl lacks an identity, and she's searching for one. Even though you're far away, you can still invite her along on a vacation or on a weekend trip or something. Sometimes talking to anyone other than mom is helpful.
I'll try to organize my thoughts a little better in my next response! I have to leave for church in a few!
Of course, that's a bit premature since I don't know what her chldhood was like. But the total defiance and the willingness to either harass or steal to get what ME wants, etc. makes me wonder about it. The fact of meds doing nothing for her was a big red flag for me. Hopefully it's NOT the case, but it's something we all need to be aware of.
Never ceases to amaze me how they try and give a behavior problem a medical name, so they can sedate?
First, I don't believe in meds...but, I'm no doctor, I just think this gal is way to young and going to get hooked on something she doesn't need to be one.
I think it is a great idea to bring her to your home....
Before I sent her to camp...I'd want to talk to people who had kids go there and find out what they're daily corriculum is. I do have a problem with Christian Camps and Crhistian Counselors, and I'll tell you why. They don't counsel the problem....they tell you God will work it out...and he doesn't. God gives us brains, the knowledge of right and wrong along with choice and free will. That's it...and the only way an issue can be worked out is to find out what is causing the problem...I endorse a counselor like Dr. Phil...if there were more of him in the business, it would be a good thing. He tells you like it is...he gets to the root of the problem and tells you right out....you've gotta want to do it...and that person does....it won't be by God's interventions, but by the person wanting to change, or wanting to solve their problem.
I would suggest a change...but what change would be a family matter....but this I will say, if you go to counseling, and the counselor isn't helping in a month, then find one who will make a difference....b/c some of them will keep you coming back again and again....
Try moving her in with you, but if she disrupts the family to the entent it is ripping you all apart, then other changes will have to be made.
Hoosier, I think you got a lot of wonderful advice here. I don't see how I can add anything except for some of my own experience.
I left my husband last year. My son just turned 11 this summer so it's a huge difference between him and your niece. Our situation is quite different, it seems. We are managing both financially and as a family (we are living with my father so my son has a male figure to look up to). Still, he starts to show certain signs.
His father hardly ever keeps his word. He promises the world and then forgets. He never punishes our son when he deserves it, only when he annoys him. He is terribly inconsistent: one day he would let him stay outdoors the whole day, the next he'd make him check in every hour. I'm not going into details about my relationship with my husband but towards the end it wasn't nice.
My son knows all of this. He still remembers what our life used to be and is happy now. He has his own room, a cell phone and a computer. He knows the rules and he knows when to expect punishment. He also knows I'll apologize if I'm unfair and he accepts it. And yet, I am not allowed to say one word against his father - this is beginning to happen more and more often. He tries to find excuses for everything his father does (or doesn't). He didn't start to turn against me openly yet but I see it coming.
I don't believe it's my fault, nor is it my son's. It's just the way things are, I think. At some point, kids start to have their own mind about things and when they do, it is against their parents. The stronger the parent, the harder the bumps. And there is nothing wrong with that. On the contrary: a strong parent invokes strong rebellion and a strong character is built in the process. I think I heard it in a movie or something but it's been one of my favorite sayings ever since: "All teenagers should have this written on their foreheads: TEMPORARILY CLOSED DUE TO RECONSTRUCTION"
My parents divorced when I was 10, too. I saw it was my father's fault, I had no doubts about it. And yet, at 18, I still ran away to him to check for myself what kind of person he was. I didn't last three months there but I had to see it for myself.
I'm not saying that every parent of a difficult child should be proud of themselves. Failures do happen. I just don't see it here. Nor do I see any mental problems. It's difficult to judge based on one email, so Jammie may well be right, though.
I also don't think it would be such a good idea to have your niece move to you for the whole school year. Your own kids notwithstanding, she may see it as a punishment, being taken away from her school and friends. I agree with aiangel_writer that a week during a break would be best, both for your kids and her. You could still observe her, get to know her and see what the problem is firsthand.
Another thing is, I believe, that your sister needs encouragement. Someone to tell her how brave she is and how she does everything she can to make her kids happy. Do it every chance you get.
Does she talk to her daughter? I mean, really talk. Did she ever tell her how hard her life is? Not when she has to refuse her anything but at night, alone, after work. Just sit down and confide a little. A 14 year old will understand a lot. If not the problems, then certainly emotions. It may help, it won't hurt.
You might ask Sis if your niece has had any drinking problems - well, not problems, but if she's been drinking at all. If she's taking meds and drinking that is a VERY bad thing.
I have boys - they were absolutely awful when I was divorced, so I can relate. Although I see everyone's point, I'm going to disagree. At 14, she's smarter in some ways and dumber in some ways than you think she is, or than is even possible. They are master manipulators, and they can spot a guilty mom in the dead of night in a room with no windows...and they work it. I know this isn't any consolation, but I've decided they're really not human again until they are 23.
I don't think any purpose is served by allowing her to live in your house without the opportunity to see how it will work out - and now that summer has passed, the golden opportunity may be gone. Your next opportunity may be Thanksgiving or Christmas and see how she behaves...and holidays aren't very good times for assessment because they aren't long enough. So, given that perfect timing never comes around - how do YOU feel about Marie? Absent what her mother says? Do you have the room for her, and the ability to help straighten her out? I've no doubt she would be a different child for you (or at least we can hope). If she thinks her mom is so terrible, turn the tables on her......"you can stay here until you act a fool, then you're headed back to where you came from". I'm sure she will be itching to go home just shortly and mom will look a whole lot better.
If dad hasn't seen the kids in over a year, he can't be using them too much as pawns...in my mind, he's not a player in this equation. I WILL tell you she is entitled to some child support and she is being foolish and punishing herself if she doesn't seek it. He's been working and at least can be held accountable for what he hasn't paid. If he can't pay it, oh well. Off to jail with you. That sends a signal to the child that actions have consequences. And dads miraculously come up with money and a job when faced with jail time.It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, but it got everyone's attention (thank goodness he got bailed out in just a few hours, I was SO guilty!).
As for Marie - there have to be some state-supported counseling services, but the best way to work this out may be the way Marie likes the least...having her help. Your sister is on a limited income - Marie can babysit, she can rake leaves, she can pet-sit, she can do SOMETHING to make life easier for everyone while helping herself...she has some cash in her pocket, she finds out work is hard, finds out what we want doesn't just fall from the sky...it's not-so-simply a matter of holding the line and refusing all of Marie's tricks and guilty trips. This is helpful in so many ways - it makes the child accept some responsibility - it separates the child and the parent for just a couple of hours every day or on the weekend, or whatever, thereby reducing friction....but most importantly, it gives them a new perspective on how hard it is to get by and hopefully a feeling of responsibility and accomplishment.
One thing I did with my boys was ask them to "help" me pay bills and figure out a budget....and I brought my paycheck to the table and the bills, and we figured out how much I made, how much we owed, what was left over, and how it could best be spent. We also figured out how to spend what we had most effectively, like with grocery shopping. If they thought the trade-off for going to the movie was a box of pre-sweetened cereal, they were more than happy to eat oatmeal. They both tell me they were shocked that day to find out that all that "big money" mom was bringing home really wasn't. It didn't do any good for them to see the paycheck unless they could see that what comes in must go out, and there really wasn't anything left over for the extras. That's when they started cutting yards and helping out....and a tired kid is a good kid. Is Marie interested in any sport or anything that maybe you could sponsor her and help pay for her uniform or entry fees?
Keeping 'em busy - that's the whole key....
Last edited by Sam I Am; 09-04-2007 at 03:43 AM..
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