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I have an extremely strained relationship with my MIL; the relationship is so strained that I actually have a physical reaction to her presence. I do everything I can to avoid her and most definitely avoid any type of alone time.
I'm not saying this is the case with you but if you were to ask my MIL what she's done wrong to me should would say "nothing, I don't deserve this". Her personality is such that she feels the world owes her a favor and she can demand things and not have to show gratitude in return, she is also very opinionated and feels like the world listening to her opinion is owed to her. In her eyes she has done nothing wrong to anyone although I am not the only person who does not want to be around her.
The fact that you were given excuses and reasons to avoid the hospital and DIL's mother showed up looking like she ran there when you showed up speaks volumes, there is SOME reason that she does not want to be alone in a room with you. Her own mother is aware of this reason and finds it rational enough that she's willing to stop whatever she's doing and sit in the waiting room to spare her daughter the uncomfortable moment.
If it is important to you to spend more time in your sons life I think you need to sit down and do an honest evaluation of your relationship and actions towards your DIL and see if there is something there in your way of being that is making your DIL uncomfortable, do the same with your son since he also seems to be avoiding you.
The next step is to stop expecting the them to be the ones to reach out to you and invite you, they are obviously busy and have limited free time; if you are making them uncomfortable they are not going to be the ones to reach out to you in thier limited free time. Maybe you can start off by being the one to invite them over (do not invite yourself over), give them plenty of advance notice so they have the date open. When you are together if you notice there is something you are doing that seems to upset them in anyway just drop it and modify the behavior. Invite them over again but take it slow, there is a strained relationship here that will take a long time to rebuild and force feeding it to them is just going to have the opposite effect.
It's going to take a lot of effort which will most likely have to come from you since you are the one that has the desire to build a relationship and fit yourself into their lives. After some time when everyones comfort level begins to build a little bit you should probably in the nicest way and with out getting defensive ask his wife if there was something you did to make her uncomfortable.
Another tip is to never bring up that money you have loaned him unless its a discussion about more money. He's your son, when he was a child you had an obligation to provide for him and as an adult you had a desire to provide for him, he does not owe you favors for you fulfilling your obligations and desires.
And speaking of obligations just like he was your number one obligation when he was growing up his number one obligation is the family he has created. If his mother fits into this and plays nicely then great but he shouldn't be expected to disrupt the balance of his family life if mother can't fit into it without disrupting the family.
Even if it's not you it's them, you will still need to be the one to make concessions if you want to have a better relationship and presence in their lives since at this time they seem content with excluding you.
This is a really great and thoughtful post and I will refer to it as I ponder my relationship with my DIL and son. Sometimes a person will post a topic that is really close to his heart and then when he gets input, he becomes angry and defensive as a reaction to the input......when everyone is just trying to help. I don't want to do that. But I do regret mentioning money I have spent on my son or given him in my opening post because it is absolutely something I never mention. I just shouldn't have written about it, I guess I was trying to communicate my very strong emotional investment in the relationship and that I have being giving all I can to it. I am not a wealthy person. I wouldn't hesitate to cut my own heart out and donate it to my son if he needed a new heart. This is a sad time in my life right now....dealing with issues surrounding my own mother who is indeed a challenge to love at this time. So maybe I'm pretty sensitive to how distant my son has become and especially during a time when he has been going thru a lot of medical issues and my maternal instinct is to be near him.....
I have spent over 8 years trying to develop a relationship with my DIL and I accept all her many human flaws. I have been supportive of her many times when my son has complained to me about things at home over the years. I have bitten my tongue a thousand times! Opposite to your MIL, I rarely express opinions and I have wonderful friends and long term relationships....I don't believe others avoid me. My stepdaughter from my former marriage and my former inlaws all have stayed close. Ahhhh...I know you are just speaking to your own situation. Again, I thank you for your insight and will think seriously about what I can -- and am willing to -- do.
Squirl--I'm glad you did not take offense to my post. I did try to keep my emotions out of it as much as possible and I tried not to lean it too much towards my own personal situation.
I see what you are saying about the money and that you now regret including it. Your feelings of deep connection and willingness to sacrifice for your son are very much maternal, I think for most mothers this is the way we feel about our children We do whatever it takes for them!
Having had a few husbands I'm assuming you've also had a few MIL's yourself so you know that the battle between MIL and DIL is as old as time itself. Occasionally it doesn't happen and everyone gets along just fine, but a lot of times it does and I think that it's a relationship that often takes a lot of nurture and boundries in order to flourish.
Here are some of my thoughts on the relationship between in laws and specifically MIL and DIL.
I think it's difficult to let other people in to our lives especially the close personal portions of it. We all grow up somewhere and things are done a certain way inside that home, right or wrong, normal or weird, that is our comfort zone. It's what we are familiar with and it's our normal. The people who live under the same roof as us may drive us crazy at times but we adjust to it and are comfortable with it, when we are too uncomfortable we are secure enough to let em have it. We have family beyond those in the house, they are crazy and nutty too but they are around us from our youth and to us it's normal and we learn to accept it.
Then we grow up and begin to live with someone else, this person we've CHOSEN (key term) has other ways of doing things, other habits that are foreign to us they seem a little crazy and weird. But we like this person, we sought this person out, we love this person and we learn to accept this person just like they are learning to accept us. Together we begin to create new weird little habits and ways of doing things that are hybrid of the ways we learned in our family homes and some of them are just plain new.
Then comes the inlaws, this crazy nutty group of people that does weird things and we didn't choose them, in fact when we fell in love we neglected to realize that there would be an entire tribe of people we'd be taking into our lives and who we'd be expected to share our most personal family moments with. Some times these are people we would have chosen anyway, they are like us, or they are not like us but an easy friendship is forged. Other times, many times, this bond isn't so quick and we're hesitant to just jump right in and form close friendships with people who you would not be sharing air with if it were not for the fact that they are related to your partner.
Then their is the MIL, she raised your partner, she cleaned his butt, she wiped his tears and kissed his boo-boos, she made his meals and helped him study. She is mother and she knows best. Or does she? Because DIL here knows him very well, she's made him smile when he wants to cry, she knows his secrets, she's brought him pleasure, she's made him want to be a better man and she's his best friend. It's easy to see here how women, who by nature are very territorial, could turn this relationship into a bit of a power struggle, even subconciously. Who is going to be there for him the most? And who does he love the most? Who knows what he needs? We don't get along with everyone and now here is someone we have no choice but to bring into our lives.
It's a delicate relationship and it requires a lot of respect in both directions and a lot of boundries. Sometimes "just being ourselves" isn't enough to get this relationship off the ground and we need to edit it a little bit in order to be able to share.
Due to the very nature of the relationship the wife often has the upper hand so Squirl I think the best thing you can do for your relationship with your son is begin to value his relationship with his wife and build your own relationship with her, she is the key. Men by nature are very "go with the flow" and usually not the ones that keep the family calendar thats usually done by the wife. So getting ample time with your son is largely dependant on his wife be open to penciling you into the calendar and hopefully even being the one to reach out to you.
There is definitely something there creating a tension between you two and you need to figure out what that is without being overbearing.
Squirl, I feel your pain ( and raise you +1, lol). I have made my peace with my DIL. My son knows our door is always open. He does call, I haven't spoken to DIL since the wedding 4 months ago. DS wants us to make the trip up to visit, but I told him we will not socialize with the parents of DIL, which is really where the issues lie.
I know my son is happy with his new wife, and that's really all I need to know. I miss him, but I will not be held hostage to his in-laws. It just makes it easier on myself and my husband to develop the mindset that we can't control the situation .
#1 MIL - mother of alcoholic hubby 1 (11 year marriage)...know it all high school teacher who actually stood at my elbow instructing me on how to stack my dishwasher. Drove me crazy, talked constantly. Always welcome in my home. Hugs and kisses. When I divorced her son she cried and told me I deserved better. Great gramma to my kid.
#2 MIL - was a widow and wanted to spend every weekend with us! (18 year marriage). My rule: we would do something with her once a month. She loved to babysit and I loved that. We had nothing in common and she believed I would go to hell b/c I wasn't her religion. Saw her every holiday and at least once a month. Hugs and kisses every time. We went thru a lot when her son was dying of cancer and she helped me do hospice. Whenever we say goodbye on the phone to this day we say "I love you"
#3 MIL. She's 99 years old. Lives far off, but in the 9 years I have known her I see her a few times a year. Love her!
I have always prided myself with effectively managing relationships. When my DIL was 14 years old I gave her and some girlfriends a ride home from the skating rink (picking up son, who rode in the front seat). I listened to the girls in the backseat and noticed what an agitator this girl was....a classic "mean girl". Wow, wasn't I surprised 10 years later to see her as a central figure in my kid's life. I do agree that the most important thing is that my kid has a good family life. Just writing this makes me realize I am the target of a mean girl. I've seen many of those same mean girl behaviors in my granddaughter and I don't tolerate them. Example: on the playground when she was just 4 years old, she would reject playing with other little girls who didn't have pretty bows or matching clothes and we had some serious conversations about this kind of thing. When my grandkid is with me she knows meanness toward other kids doesn't happen. I am giving up hope of having a fulfilling family life that includes my son, his wife and my granddaughter. I used to look a cruise brochures or ski holiday advertisements and think it would be fun to put together a vacation for all of us. I guess this past few weeks I have come to the realization that I am a silly Pollyanna and I need to get over this fantasy....... I will continue to make efforts to have relationships with my son and his family but I have lost heart for it......
I understand your situation may be completely different because your DIL does sound like a piece of work...but in general, these things are not always personal, or rather, indications of hostility or dislike. I don't particularly want a tight relationship with my MIL. She's great - really, sweet, polite, very helpful, and she keeps trying to create a closer relationship between us, but for me, time spent with her is generally a chore that I feel forced to do to avoid hurting her feelings. We're just too different - me and DH are very introverted, laid back people, and MIL is always full of this nervous energy, always fussing around, I find I just feel physically wiped out after being with her. She's the epitome of 'killing with kindness', as in she'll, for example, at dinner make sure to pick the ugliest or smallest piece of food off a plate - and state it out loud, always make sure to put less food for herself than everyone else, always jumping around to bring this or that when we are just begging her to just sit down already and eat, will keep apologizing for stuff that wasn't her fault to begin with. She's a good cook and knows it, yet every time she'll keep saying how this or that turned out so badly and it's burnt or underseasoned or whatever. I get exhausted from having to keep reassuring her and saying 'no no really, it's okay, no it's delicious', etc etc, it's non-stop. She's also a perfectionist clean freak, so I always feel like I don't measure up. She'll apologize that the dinner napkin that we used as a bib for our son wasn't ironed, knowing full well that at my place the only things that get ironed are some clothes, and wth would you iron a baby's bib? Anyways, a couple of hours with her makes me wanna bash my head against the wall. But at the same time, I know she means well and loves us, and if you ask her, she's gonna be shocked and surprised if she knew how I really felt, because she thinks she's being nice, while all we want her to do is sit the hell down and just freaking relax, so we can relax too. I'm always nice to her and try not to hurt her feelings, but whenever I do have an excuse to avoid her without being too obvious, I use it. Like I said, I know it has nothing to do with your situation, just an example of how the same situation might be interpreted very differently by a MIL and a DIL, or any two people for that matter.
Last edited by EvilCookie; 10-21-2011 at 09:46 PM..
At the OP, this is a very unique situation that must be handled delicately. My initial reaction has already been covered by Icibiu. The only thing left is to focus on the grand kids and eventually (hopefully) they will open your sons eyes. One thing i made very clear to my wife (then girl friend) was the bond between my mother and I. She is fully aware that any attempts to create friction between us will be thwarted.
I wouldnt worry so much about the DIL as she has no incentive to really want to forge a relationship with you. The onus is on your son to make it clear that he wants you in his life and the wife will have to adjust!!!
BTW the title of the thread does not represent MOST sons. Just saying
I think this is rather common. I hear much less from the oldest son since he's been married though we were always close. Now trying to communicate more with his new wife. She is somewhat more parochial than we were having only lived in one particular area and only really comfortable with that culture. We're outdorsy, she's not.
I know the feeling you're having.
My own MIL was a piece of work. Couldn't understand why her NYC tv channels didn't come in at our house in the woods and always had greasy hands from never ending food which got on everything. We were brought up in a much more genteel mannered way. My husband pressed for her frequent visits and after I got as use to her as I could she became my ardent supporter even supporting me over him.
I think it's a matter of winning the daughter-in-law over so she doesn't feel like you're butting in and trying to compete for his affections. There is an adjustment for a them to become familiar with the culture of the household that their husbands were raised in and hopefully the DIL will be willing to be open minded if you tread lightly.
This is a really tough situation and my heart goes out to you. I think that your strategy of placing the initiative on him to call is probably a good one. Give it a rest for a bit and perhaps he will come around.
This problem seems to be an age old one and isn't just limited to sons. My stepmother used to be very close to her daughter. Things started to go downhill when the daughter married a man who my stepmother thought was beneath her. She made the unfortunate mistake of mentioning this to her daugther and it really caused their relationship to go downhill. This has continued for 25+ years of marriage and the relationship between mother and daughter is very rocky. Some of the problem is with my stepmother who is very rigid and even if she bites her tongue, it is all in the tone of voice and disapproving looks. She has also been openly critical of their lifestyle and this hasn't helped. Critical of grandkids, critical of what they are feeding them, even what they are feeding the dog. Her SIL finally blew up when she was giving him tips on what to feed their dog resulting in her staying in a hotel everytime she visits them. Heck, after my dad and stepmom came to visit us for 4 days, she sent me a box of cookbooks for "healthier" cooking. I was extremely offended.
I'm sure that you aren't like this but you mentioned that your DIL was one of the "mean girls." If you said something to your son before and especially after marriage, it could have gotten back to her. Memories can be long ones and sometimes, people don't forgive and forget.
This is a really tough situation and my heart goes out to you. I think that your strategy of placing the initiative on him to call is probably a good one. Give it a rest for a bit and perhaps he will come around.
This problem seems to be an age old one and isn't just limited to sons. My stepmother used to be very close to her daughter. Things started to go downhill when the daughter married a man who my stepmother thought was beneath her. She made the unfortunate mistake of mentioning this to her daugther and it really caused their relationship to go downhill. This has continued for 25+ years of marriage and the relationship between mother and daughter is very rocky. Some of the problem is with my stepmother who is very rigid and even if she bites her tongue, it is all in the tone of voice and disapproving looks. She has also been openly critical of their lifestyle and this hasn't helped. Critical of grandkids, critical of what they are feeding them, even what they are feeding the dog. Her SIL finally blew up when she was giving him tips on what to feed their dog resulting in her staying in a hotel everytime she visits them. Heck, after my dad and stepmom came to visit us for 4 days, she sent me a box of cookbooks for "healthier" cooking. I was extremely offended.
I'm sure that you aren't like this but you mentioned that your DIL was one of the "mean girls." If you said something to your son before and especially after marriage, it could have gotten back to her. Memories can be long ones and sometimes, people don't forgive and forget.
Well I think you are definitely on to something regarding body language and disapproving vibes..tho I have never once said anything about my assessment of my DIL to my son. My son and his wife certainly don't share my approach to preparing a child for school success. My granddaughter is permitted to eat breakfast pastries and has no bedtime on weekends.....her bedtime on school nights is 10pm (she is 6 years old). Because she is a picky eater mom packs her lunch. (and has a different character lunchbox for each day of the week/w matching backpack!!). I once took her to school and looked into the lunch box. Cheese, crackers, fruit and cookies. No veggie. I never said a word about this, tho. My grandchild also lives with a TV on all the time and has a TV in her bedroom, too which she is permitted to fall asleep to. As the grandmother, I have voiced my concerns about bedtime (never diet, she says with throbbing tongue!) and once I offered to pay for and babysit while they attend child rearing classes. I failed to mention this in my post.
Well I think you are definitely on to something regarding body language and disapproving vibes..tho I have never once said anything about my assessment of my DIL to my son. My son and his wife certainly don't share my approach to preparing a child for school success. My granddaughter is permitted to eat breakfast pastries and has no bedtime on weekends.....her bedtime on school nights is 10pm (she is 6 years old). Because she is a picky eater mom packs her lunch. (and has a different character lunchbox for each day of the week/w matching backpack!!). I once took her to school and looked into the lunch box. Cheese, crackers, fruit and cookies. No veggie. I never said a word about this, tho. My grandchild also lives with a TV on all the time and has a TV in her bedroom, too which she is permitted to fall asleep to. As the grandmother, I have voiced my concerns about bedtime (never diet, she says with throbbing tongue!) and once I offered to pay for and babysit while they attend child rearing classes. I failed to mention this in my post.
And you're really surprised they seem to be distancing themselves from you?
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We do whatever it takes for them!
I do agree that the most important thing is that my kid has a good family life. Just writing this makes me realize I am the target of a mean girl. I've seen many of those same mean girl behaviors in my granddaughter and I don't tolerate them. Example: on the playground when she was just 4 years old, she would reject playing with other little girls who didn't have pretty bows or matching clothes and we had some serious conversations about this kind of thing. When my grandkid is with me she knows meanness toward other kids doesn't happen. I am giving up hope of having a fulfilling family life that includes my son, his wife and my granddaughter. I used to look a cruise brochures or ski holiday advertisements and think it would be fun to put together a vacation for all of us. I guess this past few weeks I have come to the realization that I am a silly Pollyanna and I need to get over this fantasy....... I will continue to make efforts to have relationships with my son and his family but I have lost heart for it......
