[swake]

None, not one.

If you had to choose what three other nearby cities Tulsa and Oklahoma City are most like I would first choose each other, and then probably Kansas City and Omaha for Tulsa and Wichita and Ft Worth for Oklahoma City. If Tulsa and Oklahoma City are both so Southern why are they so different from Little Rock and Memphis? Those are the closest Southern cities. Southerners only kind of claim those cities anyway, they are in no way Deep South cities. Tulsa and OKC have nothing in common with deep south cities.

Oklahoma borders Arkansas for most of the eastern border but that doesn’t make Oklahoma “Southern”. Most Southerners would contend Arkansas an only kind of Southern state anyway, especially NW Arkansas up by Tulsa. I understand that people from southeast Oklahoma feel Southern because they border southern Arkansas and feel isolated from Oklahoma’s cities. I get that, but that’s the only southern part of the state. The rest of Oklahoma is not Southern and rest of the states that Oklahoma borders are not Southern. Texas is not Southern, Texas is Texas and while the Houston area is pretty Southern, Oklahoma doesn’t border South Texas. North Texas and the Dallas area is much more Southwestern than Southern and West Texas, which a lot of more Oklahoma borders than Arkansas, is not Southern at all. Next comes New Mexico and Colorado neither of which is remotely Southern. Kansas shares a huge border with Oklahoma, much more than Arkansas, and is solidly Midwestern. Northeast Oklahoma shares borders with Kansas, Midwestern Missouri along with NW Arkansas.

[artsy11]

^Thank you, swake.

Btw, I see some people claiming cultural identity with regional identity and those two are not synonymous. So when I said southwest with southern influences, the influence is culture (i.e. smaller towns far from the two larger cities and closer to Arkansas), but the geography is regional and Oklahoma's regional identity is southwestern.

ETA:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...6966/Southwest

There's also a video on the right that explains the southwest.

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by norman2012

Two of the of the more ignorant (and racially insensitive) statements I've read on City-Data forums.
Following is a sampling of black majority towns in Oklahoma. Originally over 50 were settled as all black towns by freed slaves and their offspring. Followikng are the thirteen that remain. The populations of ALL of them are majority black. That doesn’t mean there exists just 13 Oklahoma with a bunch, or a majority, of blacks. These are just thirteen that you somehow failed to consider in your statement that Idabel is probably the most “African American” (whatever that is) in Oklahoma (which you correctly numbered at 25%)

Incorporated Towns
Langston – 92.3 % Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Langston-Oklahoma.html
Taft – 82% Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Taft-Oklahoma.html
Tatums – 78.1% Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Tatums-Oklahoma.html
Summit – 75.5% Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Summit-Oklahoma.html
Clearview – 75% https://www.city-data.com/city/Tatums-Oklahoma.html
Redbird – 67.9 Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Rentie...-Oklahoma.html
Tullahassee – 63% Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Tullahassee-Oklahoma.html
Grayson – 59.7% Black https://www.city-data.com/city/Tatums-Oklahoma.html

Unincorporated Towns
These are scattered throughout the state but thte one I have the most experience with is Vernon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon,_Oklahoma My wifes family settled in
(and still remain) in McCintosh county prior to the Vernon settlement in 1911. I have been through there many times, I’ve never seen a white person that I can remember (even at gas stations, etc)

Sir,

respectfully, none of those towns are in SE Oklahoma. None of them are really what I would call "towns" anymore. My like little bergs. My point is that the "African American" culture is underrepresented in SE Oklahoma compared to Mississippi. It is different because of this in comparison to most of SE Oklahoma which really doesn't even have a black community in many cities and towns. I'm sorry if you feel I'm being racist by stating facts about the two areas.

[eddie gein]

To continue my post from above.................

Contrast SE Oklahoma where the representative population is at most 30% black in any area and much much less than that in almost all areas and compare it to Jackson, MS. The largest city in the state of Mississippi/State Capitol is 80% African American, and it is not uncommon for cities and towns to be majority African American in the deep south.


We can take Leflore Co. Miss. 68% African American. And contrast that to Leflore Co. Oklahoma which is a southeastern Oklahoma County. 2.2% African American.

[imbored198824]

I live in Branson, Missouri and come in contact with people from all across the state of Oklahoma on a daily basis....y'all love to come on vacation here. I consider Oklahoma overall to be a more southern state. Not as southern as Arkansas, but still southern. I go to the casino in Miami quite a bit as well. Honestly I would consider the part of Missouri I live in to be more southern in culture than much of Oklahoma as well. I still wouldn't lump Oklahoma in with the Midwest. Just like I wouldn't lump 100% of Missouri in with the Midwest..because the southern part of the state has a strong southern element to it.

[artsy11]

From fast track teaching on the topic of Geography:
http://www.fasttrackteaching.com/bur...ions300g80.gif

Nashua.edu:
Southwest

From NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC:
United States Regions - National Geographic Education

Tellurian:
United States Regions

Another teaching website:
Regions of the United States

[Jess5]

Originally Posted by Miami HurricaneZ

Thanks man. I crack up when I hear people call Oklahoma the Midwest. I'm pretty impressed what I have learned from you and several others on this forum about Oklahoma. A few months ago, I told StillwaterTownie (I think I got his/her username right) that I knew all of Oklahoma wasn't flat and dusty. I knew it was somewhat diverse but had no idea how many different regions it had until coming on here. I actually post in the Oklahoma Forum more than any other forum. I've always liked Oklahoma for some odd reason. I hope to move to the Western part of the state one day.

Come on down, we'll leave the lights on........................

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by swake

None, not one.

If you had to choose what three other nearby cities Tulsa and Oklahoma City are most like I would first choose each other, and then probably Kansas City and Omaha for Tulsa and Wichita and Ft Worth for Oklahoma City. If Tulsa and Oklahoma City are both so Southern why are they so different from Little Rock and Memphis? Those are the closest Southern cities. Southerners only kind of claim those cities anyway, they are in no way Deep South cities. Tulsa and OKC have nothing in common with deep south cities.

Oklahoma borders Arkansas for most of the eastern border but that doesn’t make Oklahoma “Southern”. Most Southerners would contend Arkansas an only kind of Southern state anyway, especially NW Arkansas up by Tulsa. I understand that people from southeast Oklahoma feel Southern because they border southern Arkansas and feel isolated from Oklahoma’s cities. I get that, but that’s the only southern part of the state. The rest of Oklahoma is not Southern and rest of the states that Oklahoma borders are not Southern. Texas is not Southern, Texas is Texas and while the Houston area is pretty Southern, Oklahoma doesn’t border South Texas. North Texas and the Dallas area is much more Southwestern than Southern and West Texas, which a lot of more Oklahoma borders than Arkansas, is not Southern at all. Next comes New Mexico and Colorado neither of which is remotely Southern. Kansas shares a huge border with Oklahoma, much more than Arkansas, and is solidly Midwestern. Northeast Oklahoma shares borders with Kansas, Midwestern Missouri along with NW Arkansas.

Personally, I've never met an Okie that would try to allege that Oklahoma is part of the Deep South, just that it is more Southern than anything else when given the four main regions: the West, Midwest, the North, and the South. I've always been clear that Oklahoma, by its cultural norms, is really a good solid mix of Southern and Southwestern semblances with some good ol' Western independence/pioneer spirit mixed in for good measure. That's the OKIE way!

As far as cities that could be considered Southern that are similar in culture and overall feel to OK City and Tulsa I'd go with Fort Worth (and greater Dallas area in general), Amarillo & Lubbock, Fayetteville, and Fort Smith. I understand that you do not see any of these cities as Southern by your definition, but your criteria and designation seems to fall flat as the vast majority folks from these areas (*cue the study done by North Carolina U. regarding each state population's perception of regional identity*) disagree with you in this regard, including the Census. I could see a tangential association of OK City/Tulsa to KC and Omaha in the outlook of the cities/people, but to a much much lesser cultural extent than the cities aforementioned. Also, while I agree that Memphis doesn't seem to have a lot in common with OK City/T-Town, having visited Nashville and the surrounding area many times I've always felt that while the topography was somewhat different, Nashville felt quite similar to Oklahoma City (and not worlds away from Tulsa). Granted there may be some hodpodge of cultures in Nashville given the transplantation, but Nashville, by in large, is a Southern city through and through. You may not feel like these are Southern cities because they are not like say, Charleston or Augusta: the ol' aristocratic fakey/hokey "Gone With The Wind" Southern cities.

With that said, people should acknowledge that the South is a huge region (just look at the quadrants/sub-regions of the Census) and there is not one monolithic Southern culture from Oklahoma & Texas to Mississippi to Alabama Georgia/SC and on up to Richmond, Virginia. All could be considered part of the Greater South in varying degrees, but with obvious differences from state to state and city to city.

I think you've got Texas right to some extent, putting it in its own category. However, the Southern tendencies of Tejas outside of the major metropolitan areas (typical of virtually all major cities in the South with the exception of a few, ergo Jackson...heck, HotLanta does not "feel" very Southern anymore when I visit there on business) are overt. And, I believe that while you may make a distinction between Oklahoma and Texas, Oklahoma, at least by your standards, should be its own category as well in conjunction with TX. You see DFW more in the Southwestern category culturally and I think you can make a great case for OK City/Tulsa being similar in that no other cities are more like Oklahoma's major metropolitan areas than the big cities of North and West Texas as well as the smaller metropolitan areas of West Arkansas, read Fort Smith and Fayetteville. Given your semi-accurate depiction of Texas, why don't you just lump Oklahoma in the Southwest cultural cagetory? You would be much closer to an accurate assessment and in agreement with many to most that have voted in this thread's poll. Given Oklahoma's qualities and clear cultural affinity with North and West Texas, it can be said with resolute authority that Oklahoma is not the Midwest (unless you change the history and meaning of the term "Midwest") which you appear to have an imbalanced appreciation for when it comes to Oklahoma's regional identity eschewing overall culture, speech patterns, religion, food norms & customs, etc.

Perhaps Oklahoma's Southern designation makes you squirm as folks from other regions/secular media view Oklahoma through the imagery of the mythical Grapes of Wrath toothless and backwards Redneck Okie? (Admittedly, I'm a few of those things.) I'm not sure, but I think you're getting closer to an accurate assessment if you would see Oklahoma in the same (or similar) light as Texas, part of its own region. One thing is clear after watching the voting of this thread unfold: the vast majority of people view Oklahoma as either part of the South or the Southwest....or like me, most likely, a combination of both of those cultural regions. If you take the votes for the South option and add them to the Southwest option you get somewhere around 80% of the people viewing Oklahoma as either the South/Southwest. That's a very high percentage and the numbers don't lie. You're welcome to your opinion even when it is clearly askew.

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by artsy11

From fast track teaching on the topic of Geography:
http://www.fasttrackteaching.com/bur...ions300g80.gif

Nashua.edu:
Southwest

From NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC:
United States Regions - National Geographic Education

Tellurian:
United States Regions

Another teaching website:
Regions of the United States

I hope and pray that Texas Reb never clicks on this thread.

[artsy11]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

I hope and pray that Texas Reb never clicks on this thread.

I'm explaining the regional identity in logical terms of geography.