Oklahoma City - Big League City? (Stillwater, Miami: buy, public schools, taxes)
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You left off liberal strongholds like New York (with an economy larger than all but a handful of countries,) Boston (which has maintained a low unemployment rate through this recession,) Atlanta (which has boomed into an Alpha city,) Washington (with a dynamic, fast-changing city scene) and others.
You also left off conservative cities like Phoenix (where home values are still far below their peak, and will stay for some time,) Birmingham (which saw its last population increase in the 1960 census,) Salt Lake City (which has fewer than 5,000 more residents than it did in 1950,) Pittsburgh (which, like Detroit, invested too heavily in one industry and is paying for it now) and others.
What's more important to cities than being liberal or conservative is how they are run. Whether you want to admit it or not, the bulk of Oklahoma City's growth is internal (i.e. births or people moving from other parts of Oklahoma.) If Oklahoma City were "moving up" then I would think they would improve the quality of roads and infrastructure, and do more to attract and retain out-of-state residents. North Dakota is facing a similar problem: low unemployment rate and an influx of workers who go where the work is, but might leave when economic conditions improve. When the economy recovers and the smoke clears (and people stop using illegal immigrants as economic scapegoats the way Hitler did to the Jews,) it's possible that not everyone who moved here for work will stay, especially if they were used to having certain standards Oklahoma City won't meet in their lifetimes.
I just love it when people that know what they are talking about post
You left off liberal strongholds like New York (with an economy larger than all but a handful of countries,) Boston (which has maintained a low unemployment rate through this recession,) Atlanta (which has boomed into an Alpha city,) Washington (with a dynamic, fast-changing city scene) and others.
You also left off conservative cities like Phoenix (where home values are still far below their peak, and will stay for some time,) Birmingham (which saw its last population increase in the 1960 census,) Salt Lake City (which has fewer than 5,000 more residents than it did in 1950,) Pittsburgh (which, like Detroit, invested too heavily in one industry and is paying for it now) and others.
What's more important to cities than being liberal or conservative is how they are run. Whether you want to admit it or not, the bulk of Oklahoma City's growth is internal (i.e. births or people moving from other parts of Oklahoma.) If Oklahoma City were "moving up" then I would think they would improve the quality of roads and infrastructure, and do more to attract and retain out-of-state residents. North Dakota is facing a similar problem: low unemployment rate and an influx of workers who go where the work is, but might leave when economic conditions improve. When the economy recovers and the smoke clears (and people stop using illegal immigrants as economic scapegoats the way Hitler did to the Jews,) it's possible that not everyone who moved here for work will stay, especially if they were used to having certain standards Oklahoma City won't meet in their lifetimes.
Sorry, but Detroit is ranked the most liberal city in America, much higher than Seattle and San Francisco http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/...081205libs.pdf (notice Boston didn't even make the list). Detroit has long been a bastion of liberalism in America. The city has elected very, very few Republicans in the last 60 years to any office(and they didn't last very long). They have had a Democratic mayor and a Democratic-majority City council since time immemorial, their US Reps have all been Democrats(some of the most liberal in congress)and their state has been represented by liberal Democrat Senators for years now as well. Detroit is also the reason Michigan has been a blue state for the last 5 presidential elections. Also notice the 2nd most liberal city on the list is Gary, Indiana, which has long been a declining, high-crime city.
On the other hand the most conservative city on that list(Provo, Utah)has been ranked as one of the best places to live in the nation and one of the best places for business in the country The Best Places For Business And Careers - ForbesKiplinger.com
Birmingham, Alabama is also not a conservative city. Alabama is a very conservative state, but Birmingham and Jefferson County is one of the few exceptions in the state. Jefferson county voted for Obama in the last election by 6 points and their mayor is also a Democrat. Pittsburgh has also long been a Democratic city and major union town. Obama won Pittsburgh-Allegheny county by 17 points in the last election, Kerry won it by 16 points in 2004, and Gore won it by 16 points in 2000. Pittsburgh has also had a longtime Democratic mayor and Democratic representatives in both the US and State houses.
As far as your comments on Phoenix goes, that city has been doing great actually. In 1950 their population was 106,818, and in 2010 it was 1,445,632, and ranked the sixth most populous city in America and 12th largest metro area in the country. It has also grown by 9.4% between 2000-2010, it has never lost population Phoenix, Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It also has one of the strongest economies in the southwest. It has also become a major league city itself in the last 60 years acquiring teams in all 4 major league sports(MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL). Arizona itself has one of the lowest unemployment rates and strongest economies in the country, despite declining radical left states like neighboring California trying to take the state down because of it's enforcement of immigration laws.
There is no such thing as illegal aliens being scapegoats either. They are not citizens and they have no right to be in this country in the first place.
Conservatism works because it emphasizes less government and less government control, as well as private business and industry and more freedom. Liberalism emphasizes more government control and less freedom, which stifles business growth and the economy.
Last edited by brajohns81; 08-11-2012 at 06:30 PM..
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Originally Posted by brajohns81
Sorry, but Detroit is ranked the most liberal city in America, much higher than Seattle and San Francisco http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/...081205libs.pdf (notice Boston didn't even make the list). Detroit has long been a bastion of liberalism in America. The city has elected very, very few Republicans in the last 60 years to any office(and they didn't last very long). They have had a Democratic mayor and a Democratic-majority City council since time immemorial, their US Reps have all been Democrats(some of the most liberal in congress)and their state has been represented by liberal Democrat Senators for years now as well. Detroit is also the reason Michigan has been a blue state for the last 5 presidential elections. Also notice the 2nd most liberal city on the list is Gary, Indiana, which has long been a declining, high-crime city.
On the other hand the most conservative city on that list(Provo, Utah)has been ranked as one of the best places to live in the nation and one of the best places for business in the country The Best Places For Business And Careers - ForbesKiplinger.com
Birmingham, Alabama is also not a conservative city. Alabama is a very conservative state, but Birmingham and Jefferson County is one of the few exceptions in the state. Jefferson county voted for Obama in the last election by 6 points and their mayor is also a Democrat. Pittsburgh has also long been a Democratic city and major union town. Obama won Pittsburgh-Allegheny county by 17 points in the last election, Kerry won it by 16 points in 2004, and Gore won it by 16 points in 2000. Pittsburgh has also had a longtime Democratic mayor and Democratic representatives in both the US and State houses.
As far as your comments on Phoenix goes, that city has been doing great actually. In 1950 their population was 106,818, and in 2010 it was 1,445,632, and ranked the sixth most populous city in America and 12th largest metro area in the country. It has also grown by 9.4% between 2000-2010, it has never lost population Phoenix, Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It also has one of the strongest economies in the southwest. It has also become a major league city itself in the last 60 years acquiring teams in all 4 major league sports(MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL). Arizona itself has one of the lowest unemployment rates and strongest economies in the country, despite declining radical left states like neighboring California trying to take the state down because of it's enforcement of immigration laws.
There is no such thing as illegal aliens being scapegoats either. They are not citizens and they have no right to be in this country in the first place.
Conservatism works because it emphasizes less government and less government control, as well as private business and industry and more freedom. Liberalism emphasizes more government control and less freedom, which stifles business growth and the economy.
No need to apologize... really. Not based on what you followed up with.
You are actually arguing that Boston is not a liberal city based on that source you posted? You're also still focused on downtrodden cities that happen to be liberal, as though the same can't happen to conservative cities. And for the record, Forbes lists are about as informatively useful as Letterman's Top Ten lists. I have actually seen them use "coolness" as a variable in their ratings. That is a completely immeasurable and subjective unit, and one can't really take them seriously if that is part of their scientific process. Furthermore, they often base rankings on a handful of variables to produce those ludicrous lists, and frequently you can see a city make rank on a good list one month, and also on a bad list the next.
You're also hyper-focused on liberal=Democrat, conservative=Republican. That just isn't always the case. Try looking up political platforms of Southern Democrats. I would classify those people as pretty conservative. Michael Bloomberg of New York identified as Republican for a long time (now Independent,) yet he is quite supportive of social liberties, and has a stance on many issues more associated with liberal ideals. So that brings us to Birmingham. Nearly 2/3 of its residents are black, a population that tends to vote Democrat. That still doesn't equate to liberalism. Just look at the 2008 election in California, in particular Proposition 8. Obama was able to get a high turnout of black voters, who supported Proposition 8 and their numbers likely made it pass.
Where do you want to start with Phoenix? Its relatively small economy? Bottom of the barrel education? Struggles to attract high-paying jobs? Limitless sprawl? Ponzi scheme of its failed housing industry, which it felt would go on forever? I'm really familiar with that town, so if you want to try...
You also twisted what I wrote about Salt Lake City. As I indicated, in 1950 it had about 182K people. In 2010 about 186K. So yes, it did grow... but its net gain over six decades is just over 4,000 people.
There is such a thing as using illegal immigrants as scapegoats, and it's rampant. This vitriol toward them really started as this recession grew, whereas previously they were just a part of life. Even if they magically went away, America would still go through boom and bust cycles.
So you like the less government control of conservatism? Like amendments against same-sex marriage? Abortion restrictions? Physician-assisted suicide bans? Keeping marijuana (medicinal or recreational) illegal? Allowing the state to intervene in terminating life support?
I would like you to rationally explain to me (rational would exclude use of religious dogma) how any of those aspects of conservative ideology involve less government control... which you admitted you love about conservatism.
No need to apologize... really. Not based on what you followed up with.
You are actually arguing that Boston is not a liberal city based on that source you posted? You're also still focused on downtrodden cities that happen to be liberal, as though the same can't happen to conservative cities. And for the record, Forbes lists are about as informatively useful as Letterman's Top Ten lists. I have actually seen them use "coolness" as a variable in their ratings. That is a completely immeasurable and subjective unit, and one can't really take them seriously if that is part of their scientific process. Furthermore, they often base rankings on a handful of variables to produce those ludicrous lists, and frequently you can see a city make rank on a good list one month, and also on a bad list the next.
Boston may be a liberal city, but it didn't make the cut. It is still farther down the list. You can't twist things around when they don't meet your views of the world.
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You're also hyper-focused on liberal=Democrat, conservative=Republican. That just isn't always the case. Try looking up political platforms of Southern Democrats. I would classify those people as pretty conservative. Michael Bloomberg of New York identified as Republican for a long time (now Independent,) yet he is quite supportive of social liberties, and has a stance on many issues more associated with liberal ideals. So that brings us to Birmingham. Nearly 2/3 of its residents are black, a population that tends to vote Democrat. That still doesn't equate to liberalism. Just look at the 2008 election in California, in particular Proposition 8. Obama was able to get a high turnout of black voters, who supported Proposition 8 and their numbers likely made it pass.
No my dear, you are. So black people don't count in what makes a city?? Sounds like you are the racist one to me.
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Where do you want to start with Phoenix? Its relatively small economy? Bottom of the barrel education? Struggles to attract high-paying jobs? Limitless sprawl? Ponzi scheme of its failed housing industry, which it felt would go on forever? I'm really familiar with that town, so if you want to try...
Phoenix has an excellent economy no matter how many times you like to deny it
I can also add Fort Worth, TX to that list. Fort Worth has been one of the fastest growing cities in America in the last decade. Liberal Dallas on the other hand, while growing and will probably never be beaten by Fort Worth, has slowed in the last decade. Also, you are the one who first came on here implying that liberal cities are the ones that are booming while conservative cities are busting. That is the opposite for the most part. You can try to twist it all you want, but the facts are all right there.
Provo, Utah has a great economy and has been growning. On the other hand, the most liberal city in America has been going down the crapper for a long time. Same with the 2nd.
There is such a thing as using illegal immigrants as scapegoats, and it's rampant. This vitriol toward them really started as this recession grew, whereas previously they were just a part of life. Even if they magically went away, America would still go through boom and bust cycles.
They are not supposed to be here. What part of that don't you understand?? We are supposed to have secured borders. The government is supposed to protect us from foreign invasion. Illegal immigration is causing problems as well, those are the facts.
So you like the less government control of conservatism? Like amendments against same-sex marriage? Abortion restrictions? Physician-assisted suicide bans? Keeping marijuana (medicinal or recreational) illegal? Allowing the state to intervene in terminating life support?
I would like you to rationally explain to me (rational would exclude use of religious dogma) how any of those aspects of conservative ideology involve less government control... which you admitted you love about conservatism.
I never said that I was against gay marriage.
Also, YOU guys are the ones who have violated the 1st Amendment recently with your contraception mandate. You guys are always advocating more government control over us, which always leads to tyranny. You guys are the PC ones who keep trying to wipe out free speech.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brajohns81
Boston may be a liberal city, but it didn't make the cut. It is still farther down the list. You can't twist things around when they don't meet your views of the world.
No my dear, you are. So black people don't count in what makes a city?? Sounds like you are the racist one to me.
Phoenix has an excellent economy no matter how many times you like to deny it
I can also add Fort Worth, TX to that list. Fort Worth has been one of the fastest growing cities in America in the last decade. Liberal Dallas on the other hand, while growing and will probably never be beaten by Fort Worth, has slowed in the last decade. Also, you are the one who first came on here implying that liberal cities are the ones that are booming while conservative cities are busting. That is the opposite for the most part. You can try to twist it all you want, but the facts are all right there.
Provo, Utah has a great economy and has been growning. On the other hand, the most liberal city in America has been going down the crapper for a long time. Same with the 2nd.
They are not supposed to be here. What part of that don't you understand?? We are supposed to have secured borders. The government is supposed to protect us from foreign invasion. Illegal immigration is causing problems as well, those are the facts.
Also, YOU guys are the ones who have violated the 1st Amendment recently with your contraception mandate. You guys are always advocating more government control over us, which always leads to tyranny. You guys are the PC ones who keep trying to wipe out free speech.
Boston didn't make the cut of that single source you posted, but it is a liberal city. That source isn't really an accurate measure of how liberal a place is, as it's more focused on parties than ideology.
And don't put words in my mouth about being racist. I pointed out that black people typically vote Democrat, but many have socially conservative stances. How you got "black people don't count in what makes a city" out of that is beyond me.
So what about Phoenix would you like to argue? Its housing market is still way down from its peak, there are few corporate headquarters in the Valley, Sky Harbor "International" serves very few international destinations (largely because the Phoenix market won't support those flights,) the top employer in the Valley (and Arizona) is Wal-Mart, the majority of the jobs are in retail and pay little, it consistently ranks at or near the bottom in education... Shall I continue? Does any of this sound conducive to a sound and prosperous future?
If you don't mind me asking, where did you go to school? Did they just gloss over reading comprehension? I ask, because you said I claimed liberal cities are booming and conservative cities are not. In actuality, you said liberalism has brought down some Rust Belt cities, and I pointed out conservative cities that aren't doing so well... then said: "What's more important to cities than being liberal or conservative is how they are run." Liberal or conservative cities can do quite well if they are run properly. So... I didn't twist it now, did I?
And with illegal immigrants, why not punish businesses and individuals who hire them with steep fines and harsh consequences? Oh wait! That's anti-business, and we can't have that! Those businesses and opportunities are the enablers and provide jobs for them... and that act brings illegal immigrants here. Going after the people OBVIOUSLY isn't working.
You didn't say you were against same-sex marriage, but you're labeling me with everyone else, so hey... why not respond in kind? You also didn't mention any of the other things I stated... you know, conservative platforms that force control over people's private lives and decisions.
I love your First Amendment bit too. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. When something disastrous happens, we have a collective "prayer." What's wrong with a moment of silence with which you can do as you please? Pray, reflect, think, whatever! What about Oklahoma's alcohol laws? Those are rooted in religion, and are forced on people who don't follow those religious principles. Christians say "abortion is murder" because to those people, there's one shot at life. To Buddhists and Hindus, it's just throwing a fish back into the sea, as they believe it will be reincarnated. Regardless, Christian beliefs are forced onto everyone by placing restrictions on it. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion. You can apply the same logic to physician-assisted suicide and terminating life support. Teaching creationism in schools, Christmas closing down banks and stock exchanges, bans of non-Christian religious practices that contradict Christian teachings... blah, blah, blah. This contraception thing isn't really that bad when you consider the forced Christianity you people put on the rest of us.
Oklahoma City is not considered a "big league city" for sure. OKC does not have the rat infestation of New York City , the crime is not so large that it is picked to be shown on the tv program First 48 like Dallas , OKC is not the "gang capital of the nation" that title belongs to LA.
OKC is a midwestern city that is just fine the way it is, a small city that is what it is.
Oklahoma City is not considered a "big league city" for sure. OKC does not have the rat infestation of New York City , the crime is not so large that it is picked to be shown on the tv program First 48 like Dallas , OKC is not the "gang capital of the nation" that title belongs to LA.
OKC is a midwestern city that is just fine the way it is, a small city that is what it is.
Boston didn't make the cut of that single source you posted, but it is a liberal city. That source isn't really an accurate measure of how liberal a place is, as it's more focused on parties than ideology.
And don't put words in my mouth about being racist. I pointed out that black people typically vote Democrat, but many have socially conservative stances. How you got "black people don't count in what makes a city" out of that is beyond me.
So what about Phoenix would you like to argue? Its housing market is still way down from its peak, there are few corporate headquarters in the Valley, Sky Harbor "International" serves very few international destinations (largely because the Phoenix market won't support those flights,) the top employer in the Valley (and Arizona) is Wal-Mart, the majority of the jobs are in retail and pay little, it consistently ranks at or near the bottom in education... Shall I continue? Does any of this sound conducive to a sound and prosperous future?
Wrong!! and I have backed that up with sources. Where are your's??
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And with illegal immigrants, why not punish businesses and individuals who hire them with steep fines and harsh consequences? Oh wait! That's anti-business, and we can't have that! Those businesses and opportunities are the enablers and provide jobs for them... and that act brings illegal immigrants here. Going after the people OBVIOUSLY isn't working.
Actually I agree with you on that one. The employers hiring them are the big problem. Until we can pass stricter laws on our enablers this problem will continue.
The illegal immigration enablers sitting in the white house right now will hopefully be ousted in november.
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You didn't say you were against same-sex marriage, but you're labeling me with everyone else, so hey... why not respond in kind? You also didn't mention any of the other things I stated... you know, conservative platforms that force control over people's private lives and decisions.
I love your First Amendment bit too. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. When something disastrous happens, we have a collective "prayer." What's wrong with a moment of silence with which you can do as you please? Pray, reflect, think, whatever! What about Oklahoma's alcohol laws? Those are rooted in religion, and are forced on people who don't follow those religious principles. Christians say "abortion is murder" because to those people, there's one shot at life. To Buddhists and Hindus, it's just throwing a fish back into the sea, as they believe it will be reincarnated. Regardless, Christian beliefs are forced onto everyone by placing restrictions on it. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion. You can apply the same logic to physician-assisted suicide and terminating life support. Teaching creationism in schools, Christmas closing down banks and stock exchanges, bans of non-Christian religious practices that contradict Christian teachings... blah, blah, blah. This contraception thing isn't really that bad when you consider the forced Christianity you people put on the rest of us.
Yes, too bad you liberals have proven you only believe in freedom from religion, but not freedom OF religion. Not only the contraception mandate, but you want to shut down churches, prevent people from talking about God in public, force everyone to go to school and work on religious holidays, etc. Not to mention atheism and communism are pretty much equals. Banks and government institutions shut down for a lot of holidays that many people celebrate. That is to give workers the chance to be with their families on Christmas. If you don't like Christmas then you don't have to celebrate it. No one forces you to go out and buy a christmas tree, buy presents, and sing O'holy night ya know.
Oklahoma City is not considered a "big league city" for sure. OKC does not have the rat infestation of New York City , the crime is not so large that it is picked to be shown on the tv program First 48 like Dallas , OKC is not the "gang capital of the nation" that title belongs to LA.
OKC is a midwestern city that is just fine the way it is, a small city that is what it is.
Another thing, liberals love to point out LA as a liberal city that works, but the city, like most of California has been going downhill in the last decade because of their liberal government giving the state away to Mexico and other countries south of the border.
Another thing, liberals love to point out LA as a liberal city that works, but the city, like most of California has been going downhill in the last decade because of their liberal government giving the state away to Mexico and other countries south of the border.
Southern California has conservative roots, and was much more conservative back when it was "the place to be" in the 1980s. Hollywood has always been liberal, but SoCal as a whole was the land of Reagan. It seems like the more liberal it has become, the more downhill it has gone. Today, California is not the land of opportunity it was most of the 20th century. If there is any liberal cities that are doing well, they are in the Pacific Northwest such as Portland and Seattle.
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, the crime is not so large that it is picked to be shown on the tv program First 48 like Dallas 
, OKC is not the "gang capital of the nation" that title belongs to LA.
