Ohio will lift mask mandate, all COVID-19 health orders June 2 (Washington: insurance, buy)

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by WRnative

I used 1 million because 1) the IHME study said "more than 900,000;" and 2) the epidemic is not over, especially given our "live with COVID" policy, which you so ridiculously and inexplicably champion.

<<A new study estimates that the number of people who have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. is more than 900,000, a number 57% higher than official figures.>>

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ovid-19-in-u-s

You also are wrong about the accuracy of IHME projections.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/h...e-d387f4446655

Yeah, not terribly convinced by a puff piece that doesn't even look at any other projection systems other than IHME. Why do you believe the outlier (900K) versus everyone else who's saying more like 600K?

Also, do you not think the vaccine will protect you from serious infection? You indicated that you and your friends are now waiting for another treatment option.

[woxyroxme]

Trump wanted to close the borders but nooooo!



That’s rayciss!!!



The lefties accused Trump of mishandling the crisis but are now allowing thousands of illegals to come into the country after testing positive.

Come on man!

[Mick St John]

Originally Posted by WRnative

You're right. Recognizing the ignorance and deceit that permeates our society does not offer a pleasant reality. There is no consolation in witnessing a disastrous and unnecessary epidemic, let alone even worst fates that lie ahead due to the proliferation of the shocking level of deceitful ignorance in our society.

Unfortunately, also a large number of my friends have no interest in resuming normal life while we allow this epidemic to fester, at least until effective therapies are introduced to treat infections (hopefully a drug such as narsoplimab, which the federal government ignored for over six months until it recently began an I-SPY trial sponsored partially by BARDA, but the study only considers hospitalized patients and there is no study of administering it to those who test positive for COVID, as with antiviral shingles drugs).

Mick, are you happy with the Trump administration's epidemic performance and the Biden administration's apparent willingness to live with a constant state of COVID infection? Aren't you bothered by the death toll, negative long-term health burdens placed on our society and medical system, and the looming reckoning for our economy once stimulus ends and we are left with a debt-strangled federal government?

Does this outcome make you feel all jolly and happy???

OMG. Seriously. You're going to give yourself a stroke. You really do need to "chill".
Covid will always be around. It's a virus. Viruses do that. If you and your friends choose to live in fear, that's your problem. I'm perfectly comfortable returning to normality.
But I can't talk now. Gotta run down to Walmart to pick up a few things.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by woxyroxme

Trump wanted to close the borders but nooooo!



That’s rayciss!!!



The lefties accused Trump of mishandling the crisis but are now allowing thousands of illegals to come into the country after testing positive.

Come on man!

Yeah, not to gang up on WRNative, but, in the piece from Forbes he shared about four lessons learned from Australia's pandemic response, here was #2:

2) Bipartisan unity is essential to an emergency response

The attacks on Trump for shutting down flights to China, as well as the cheerleading done by many public health officials and politicians for the people flooding the streets for George Floyd last spring, would seem to be the exact opposite of this.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Yeah, not terribly convinced by a puff piece that doesn't even look at any other projection systems other than IHME. Why do you believe the outlier (900K) versus everyone else who's saying more like 600K?

IHME is very professional and described their methodology here. I've followed death statistics from the beginning of the epidemic and I've read many articles about reasons for a COVID death undercount. E.g., Florida only reports deaths for "citizens," and, last I checked several months ago, they still were excluding deaths of residents who were non-citizens, including illegal residents. The big reason for an undercount is that many states don't included persons who died at home and never tested positive for COVID.

Estimation of total mortality due to COVID-19 | Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Also, do you not think the vaccine will protect you from serious infection? You indicated that you and your friends are now waiting for another treatment option.

Given our ages, risks factors, and the fact that vaccines provide a lesser immune protection for the elderly, we remain concerned. Additionally, the effectiveness of the vaccines against new variants, such as the Indian variant, hasn't been determined to my knowledge. Finally, we received our vaccinations months earlier than younger persons, so some of the initial protection may have worn off relative to those vaccinated more recently.

Wearing masks isn't a big deal for us, nor is social distancing when we can dine outside. The big loss is avoiding the theater, which most of us enjoyed greatly. I don't have any tickets until January and am uncertain at this time whether I will use them or find somebody to give them to who feels comfortable going to a packed theater with likely less than perfect ventilation in the winter.

Implementing a "zero COVID policy" isn't only a personal desire of mine. I worry that a surge for whatever reason could pose a burden on our society which will be much more difficult to contain given the resources already committed to the economy by the Fed and the federal government and the already impaired finances of many Americans.

Additionally, the additional deaths and long-haul victims if the epidemic is prolonged just seems so wasteful. There's a one-year-old in my circle who goes to day care, and likely won't be vaccinated for perhaps another year. That's a constant worry.

If an excellent therapy becomes available for persons who test positive, that would be a game changer, although I have absolutely no desire to unnecessarily risk an infection for any but a very, very good reason.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Yeah, not to gang up on WRNative, but, in the piece from Forbes he shared about four lessons learned from Australia's pandemic response, here was #2:

2) Bipartisan unity is essential to an emergency response

The attacks on Trump for shutting down flights to China, as well as the cheerleading done by many public health officials and politicians for the people flooding the streets for George Floyd last spring, would seem to be the exact opposite of this.

A key reason that the "no COVID" policy succeeded in Australia was because they followed all of the recommendations of the experts, and had bipartisan support for the required sacrifices. Trump constantly understated the deadliness of the COVID virus ("it will just go away") and weaponized opposition to public health measures, even mask wearing. Don't you remember any of this? He also attacked governors who attempted to follow the advice of the medical experts, demanding that they "liberate" their states.

Trump claimed credit for shutting down travel between China, but he never prevented persons traveling between China and the U.S. through third countries, such as Vietnam. Trump most disastrously never imposed travel quarantines for all persons entering the country. Biden still hasn't done this! Even the U.K. has had a travel quarantine for many months.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-ambe...tering-england

I don't believe Trump ever shut down flights between the U.S. and Peru, even though for many months Peru led the world in the rate of infection.

Defending the Trump epidemic response and casting him as a victim is one of the biggest of the Big Lies IMO.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Mick St John

OMG. Seriously. You're going to give yourself a stroke. You really do need to "chill".
Covid will always be around. It's a virus. Viruses do that. If you and your friends choose to live in fear, that's your problem. I'm perfectly comfortable returning to normality.
But I can't talk now. Gotta run down to Walmart to pick up a few things.

Again, the COVID calamity in the U.S. was unequaled in the era of post-WWII modern medicine, unnecessary, and far, far more devastating than in nations that implemented stringent public health measures. Your indifference and rationalization explains our difference in perceptions about what has occurred, and what still may lie ahead, especially for the economy even if we minimize the medical impact of the COVID epidemic in the months ahead.

Don't express pseudo, condescending concern for me. It's just adds to my negative impression of your character and is is ridiculous given the lack of empathy for our COVID victims, including the economic victims, that you've expressed. Additionally, you shouldn't be giving medical advice based on the absence of medical understanding shown in your posts in this thread.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by woxyroxme

Trump wanted to close the borders but nooooo!

Trump didn't make any effort to limit immigration, including no wall building, until the Democrats took control of the House of Representatives. He never introduced an immigration reform bill. During the first two years of his term, his properties were doing a booming business in birth right tourism for pregnant women seeking American citizenship for their newborns.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle...-a3628971.html

https://apnews.com/article/miami-nor...42932edd9b9ce6

And Trump never closed our borders to almost all air travel, as did the Australians. We never imposed travel quarantines on persons flying into the U.S.

The Trump defenders in this thread appear to have no memory/understanding of what has transpired in the last 15 months. If true, it's shocking, but more likely it's just more deceitful cover-up.

[WRnative]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why you don't want the U.S. to adopt a "no COVID" policy and truly end the epidemic, allowing for a once again normal society with extraordinarily low risk of a COVID infection.

Why isn't what was very good for Australia, not acceptable in the U.S.???

[roodd279]

allowing for a once again normal society

A normal society allows free and unrestricted flow to and from many or most other nations.


Australia is not doing that. And that is not "normal."