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Although not yet on the front lines of the consequences of the man-made climate change, Ohio is still being both transformed and financially impacted by man-made climate change.
In Ohio, we are seeing most detrimentally the slow destruction of our maple sugar industry and the threat of losing in this century maple trees and likely other tree species (beech kill-offs seem to be proliferating) that are the anchors of our beautiful forests.
Ohio also is losing federal funding as hundreds of billions annually are being spent in other more afflicted states to fight the environmental consequences of man-made climate change. Massive federal deficit spending is on a collision course with the increasing financial burdens of man-made climate change, already evident in shrinking federal infrastructure spending on an inflation-adjusted basis.
In the face of mounting U.S. and global environmental destruction resulting from man-made climate change, which no longer is in scientific dispute, why is there such a virulent denial of man-made climate change science in the U.S.?
It appears largely a partisan, political issue championed by Donald Trump and other Republicans, and climate change science denial obviously is embraced and financially supported by those, such as the Koch brothers, who would suffer economic loss as fossil fuel consumption is replaced with sustainable, more environmentally friendly energy technologies.
In what may be one of the greatest failures of political leadership in the history of mankind, the U.S. now has a President, an obviously effortless, frequent, and shameless prevaricator, who has labeled man-made climate change science a "hoax," and has instituted an administration promoting increased fossil fuel consumption, even while cutting funding for man-made science data collection and research and reassigning and otherwise silencing the federal government's climate scientists.
Trump and Republican denials of the ongoing man-made climate change holocaust, and the labeling of man-made climate change science as a "hoax," is only made possible by the intellectual compliance of most Republicans, and by resting on the centuries-old prestige of the American Presidency, which Trump has trashed in a few short years.
I'm unaware of any leading Ohio Republicans who aren't man-made climate change deniers (e.g., echoing refrains such as the science is "uncertain"), let alone any that have called for a concerted effort to transition away from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, most leading Ohio Democrats, while acknowledging man-made climate change as an existential threat, have been at least cowered into inaction and unwillingness to advance any policies to mitigate man-made climate change.
In contrast, Democrats in other states, most notably California, have instituted policies to greatly reduce their states' dependencies on fossil fuel consumption.
Most of the rest of the world, with perhaps the exception of Russia's Putin, derides such scientific ignorance about man-made climate change. And many Americans, faced first-hand with the consequences of man-made climate change, whether year-round wildfire conflagrations that are destroying western forests, more persistent droughts, more persistent and severe toxic algal blooms such as the red tide blooms currently devastating Florida coastal areas, and more intense, wet and destructive hurricanes, are first-hand learning the consequences of falling victim to a "Big Lie."
Yet Trump/Republican belittling of man-made climate change science is having a global impact, especially in the English-speaking world, with likely disastrous consequences. In the face of the ongoing death of the Great Barrier Reef, the unwillingness of Australians to embrace policies to mitigate man-made climate change does not bode well for those Americans urging a concerted effort to wean the U.S. off of fossil fuels.
Until voters in Ohio and elsewhere start booting out of office man-made climate change deniers, and demanding policies to transition away from fossil fuel consumption, mankind likely is on a very slipper slope to catastrophe, as represented by the economic impacts late in this century (and likely much earlier given recent trends) presented in post 1 of this thread.
The Paris agreement was working though. It was a testament to the problem that virtually the entire world agreed to it. And the US would still be part of it if we didn’t have ignorant, self-serving sociopaths running the country now. Then again, the citizens got the leadership they deserve. It’s just too bad we’re all screwed
Although not yet on the front lines of the consequences of the man-made climate change, Ohio is still being both transformed and financially impacted by man-made climate change.
In Ohio, we are seeing most detrimentally the slow destruction of our maple sugar industry and the threat of losing in this century maple trees and likely other tree species (beech kill-offs seem to be proliferating) that are the anchors of our beautiful forests.
Ohio also is losing federal funding as hundreds of billions annually are being spent in other more afflicted states to fight the environmental consequences of man-made climate change. Massive federal deficit spending is on a collision course with the increasing financial burdens of man-made climate change, already evident in shrinking federal infrastructure spending on an inflation-adjusted basis.
In the face of mounting U.S. and global environmental destruction resulting from man-made climate change, which no longer is in scientific dispute, why is there such a virulent denial of man-made climate change science in the U.S.?
It appears largely a partisan, political issue championed by Donald Trump and other Republicans, and climate change science denial obviously is embraced and financially supported by those, such as the Koch brothers, who would suffer economic loss as fossil fuel consumption is replaced with sustainable, more environmentally friendly energy technologies.
In what may be one of the greatest failures of political leadership in the history of mankind, the U.S. now has a President, an obviously effortless, frequent, and shameless prevaricator, who has labeled man-made climate change science a "hoax," and has instituted an administration promoting increased fossil fuel consumption, even while cutting funding for man-made science data collection and research and reassigning and otherwise silencing the federal government's climate scientists.
Trump and Republican denials of the ongoing man-made climate change holocaust, and the labeling of man-made climate change science as a "hoax," is only made possible by the intellectual compliance of most Republicans, and by resting on the centuries-old prestige of the American Presidency, which Trump has trashed in a few short years.
I'm unaware of any leading Ohio Republicans who aren't man-made climate change deniers (e.g., echoing refrains such as the science is "uncertain"), let alone any that have called for a concerted effort to transition away from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, most leading Ohio Democrats, while acknowledging man-made climate change as an existential threat, have been at least cowered into inaction and unwillingness to advance any policies to mitigate man-made climate change.
In contrast, Democrats in other states, most notably California, have instituted policies to greatly reduce their states' dependencies on fossil fuel consumption.
Most of the rest of the world, with perhaps the exception of Russia's Putin, derides such scientific ignorance about man-made climate change. And many Americans, faced first-hand with the consequences of man-made climate change, whether year-round wildfire conflagrations that are destroying western forests, more persistent droughts, more persistent and severe toxic algal blooms such as the red tide blooms currently devastating Florida coastal areas, and more intense, wet and destructive hurricanes, are first-hand learning the consequences of falling victim to a "Big Lie."
Yet Trump/Republican belittling of man-made climate change science is having a global impact, especially in the English-speaking world, with likely disastrous consequences. In the face of the ongoing death of the Great Barrier Reef, the unwillingness of Australians to embrace policies to mitigate man-made climate change does not bode well for those Americans urging a concerted effort to wean the U.S. off of fossil fuels.
Until voters in Ohio and elsewhere start booting out of office man-made climate change deniers, and demanding policies to transition away from fossil fuel consumption, mankind likely is on a very slipper slope to catastrophe, as represented by the economic impacts late in this century (and likely much earlier given recent trends) presented in post 1 of this thread.
I'd give you more reputation points but I've given you too much as of late it seems. I was waiting for your sanity to return...
The thing I've never understood about the Republican base is how often they radically support dogma that runs contrary to their own well-being. It's like they're so consumed with hate they'll cut their nose to spite their face. I truly thought after Bush the party was dead but it seems there is no end to the sort of blind, rage induced ignorance these people will worship.
EDIT:
I've spent most my life in liberal cities and communities, so I have a special kind of resentment and frustration with liberals. However, living around so many republicans now is just mind-boggling strange. These are people who will call an "apple" an "orange" if it irritates liberals. They've completely abandoned reality for a few "political wins".
Last edited by HueysBack; 10-13-2018 at 11:12 AM..
China's commitments to reducing fossil fuel usage and greenhouse gas emssions -- massive development of nuclear and alternative energy; transitioning long-haul trucks to LNG; mandated transition to electric vehicles; robust mass transit infrastructure; high density development; etc. -- dwarf those in the U.S. despite China's much lower per capita greenhouse gas emissions than in the U.S. Frighteningly, because of China's emphasis on these future technologies, they likely are gaining an insurmountable dominance over the U.S. in these important future industries.
Your "favorite" link, from a "conservative" (but not conservative on the environment) think tank, is a joke. Didn't you notice that some of the forecasts were not realized because of bipartisan support for the creation of the federal Environmental Protection Agency under Republican President Richard Nixon in 1970, and the passage of the Clean Air Act in 1970 (obviously, Trump's EPA is suppressing even information about the history of the EPA).
Why do you think unrealized warnings of environmental destruction averted due to regulatory action are humorous? Why do you support those who would ignore scientists and suppress scientific input into policy decisions, with likely catastrophic results for future generations???
Trump during his Presidential campaign proposed eliminating the EPA, and his administration has proceeded to gut the agency with the support of Republican Senators such as Ohio's Rob Portman, who has voted for all Trump nominees to head crucial environmental posts.
Most importantly, there is a vast difference between the warnings of environmental alarmists/book writers and those made by climate scientists based on empirical data. I don't remember a single prediction made by a climate change scientist in your "favorite" link. Yet the article clearly was made to impugn man-made climate change science.
Also, your "favorite" article talked about dead rivers. Why aren't many American rivers, such as the Cuyahoga River, dead? Because the U.S. Clean Water Act became effective in 1972.
Despite the Clean Water Act, large areas of our oceans, such as in the Gulf of Mexico, and even Lake Erie, are oxygen-deficient dead zones.
As for Lake Erie, the Kasich administration blocked the Obama EPA from intervening to clean up Lake Erie by refusing to declare the western basin "impaired," a prerequisite for federal action, until this year. The Trump administration's EPA believes that enforcement of Lake Erie pollution standards is a matter for local states, even though Ohio can't do one lick about Indiana's substantial pollution of the Maumee River basin.
You apparently don't know about, or don't care about, the large deep water dead zone in Lake Erie just 15 miles north of Cleveland. Yes, let's laugh about flawed environmental warnings; it's very funny stuff; NOT.
As for man-made climate change science, let's talk about the remarkably accurate forecasts that the pre-eminent climate change scientist James Hansen famously presented to Congress 30 years ago.
With as much respect as I can muster... your "two cents" are shockingly ignorant and full of hubris. I don't even know where to start...
First, the words you use ("gigantic hoax", "con job") says to me you get your information from folks like Hannity and Alex Jones. Not scientists. Not peer reviewed journals. Not people who devote their lives to this. You aren't interested in facts or evidence or scientific consensus... rather, your worldview is rooted in baseless conspiracy's that are driven by your emotional response to a loose and messy 'web of things' that you lump together as "bad"; "the establishment". MAGA, am I right?
God forbid auto-mechanics become part of the establishment... you'll be getting your brake lines fixed by that angry guy carrying around a copy of Behold the Pale Horse. Seriously, I'm not that far off from you in my skepticism and distrust of the powerful, but you can be both for draining the swamp while also maintaining solid footing in reality! For some reason, people like you see less value in the latter than I do.
Second, your anecdotal evidence about NW Ohio in the 1970's is useless, even if it was accurate. That's not how any of this works. Seriously man?
Third and lastly, let's talk about conspiracy's... okay let's look at both sides...
On one side you have thousands of SCIENTISTS, from different countries, in different fields, who've devoted their lives to analyzing the data, measuring ice cap depletion, carbon emissions, etc. coming to a 97% consensus. That's as unanimous as you'll find in ANY field (doctor's, farmers, auto-mechanics, magicians, conspiracy buffs, etc).
On the other side you have uber-powerful elites like the Koch Brothers claiming it's all a hoax based on... pure emotive conjecture.
Follow the money trail my friend... who sets to gain more from their position being accepted as true? Scientists whose salaries are capped at an average of 100k/yr? Or mega-carbon emitters like Koch Industries who will not hesitate to continue raping this planet in quest of reaching that Trillion Dollar mark?
Again, you can both dislike liberals and understand climate change and its impending consequences. I know many preppers who fall into this category... to me they are truly intelligent.
Finally getting back to this thread. Just wanted to say: Thanks for the laugh this good Sunday morning! Go ahead and believe lies and manipulated/false data, but don't expect me to fall for it. A lot of people have made a lot of $$$$$ off of this hoax.
Years ago when people started running around telling us the sky was falling regarding this supposed issue I did plenty of reading on the subject. I suggest you stop just listening to one side of the debate, which apparently you are keen on doing. Remember all the places that were supposed to be under water by now? Still hasn't happened. I knew it wouldn't when the likes of Al Gore and others were making the claims. They've had an agenda, and part of it has been getting filthy rich.
Finally getting back to this thread. Just wanted to say: Thanks for the laugh this good Sunday morning! Go ahead and believe lies and manipulated/false data, but don't expect me to fall for it. A lot of people have made a lot of $$$$$ off of this hoax.
Years ago when people started running around telling us the sky was falling regarding this supposed issue I did plenty of reading on the subject. I suggest you stop just listening to one side of the debate, which apparently you are keen on doing. Remember all the places that were supposed to be under water by now? Still hasn't happened. I knew it wouldn't when the likes of Al Gore and others were making the claims. They've had an agenda, and part of it has been getting filthy rich.
Again, thanks for the comedy.
Ignorance. We get that you are a committed man-made climate change denier.
Do you deny that ocean acidification is threatening the ocean food chain with mass extinctions? Do you deny the many empirical observations that document ocean acidification AND the significant warming of the world's oceans? The combined impacts of ocean warming and acidification already are destroying much of the world's coral, which provide a significant portion of mankind's protein and even much of our oxygen. Heck, do you even know about ocean acidification and global ocean warming???
The oceans have absorbed 93 percent of the excess heat resulting from greenhouse gas emissions since 1950.
The Miami Herald recently ran an editorial called "Combat climate change today for a tomorrow," warning of the myriad threats to our planet if we don't act decisively to wean ourselves from fossil fuels.
The authors of the most recent U.N. climate change panel report, released earlier this month, noted that the coral reef extinction threats and the wildfire conflagrations reported globally only became obvious climate change consequences in the last two years.
One reason that Ohioans may be complacent about man-made climate change is because our media mentions climate change evidence and environmental impacts only in passing. Please post an editorial from a major Ohio newspaper that mentions ocean acidification. This Miami Herald editorial even was more unique because it mentioned the possibility of a vicious feedback loop that could devastate human civilization much more rapidly than the mainline scientific projections released this month by the U.N. climate change panel.
What is this feedback loop? The massive thawing of the Arctic and deep oceans could release massive amounts of methane trapped in tundra and methane clathrates in the deep oceans. One study says that methane levels in the atmosphere could increase by a factor of 12 or much more, which is significant because methane is 80 times more potent as a greenhouse gas over a shorter time frame than carbon dioxide.
<<Shakhova et al. (2008) estimate that not less than 1,400 gigatonnes (Gt) of carbon is presently locked up as methane and methane hydrates under the Arctic submarine permafrost, and 5–10% of that area is subject to puncturing by open taliks. They conclude that "release of up to 50 Gt of predicted amount of hydrate storage [is] highly possible for abrupt release at any time". That would increase the methane content of the planet's atmosphere by a factor of twelve.>>
You are not funny as IMO your post is not only disingenuous, but extremely uniformed about the impacts of man-made climate change resulting from fossil fuel burning. E.g., Harold Wanless, chairman of the geological sciences department, warns an accelerating Greenland and Anarctica ice melt would inundate much of southern Florida by 2100 with a 15-foot sea level rise.
You and other man-made climate change deniers persistently claim to know more than climate change scientists, who are among the best and brightest of humanity, yet you substantiate nothing.
Do you actually believe that Donald Trump, as he repeatedly claims, knows more about everything than anybody? When Trump calls man-made climate change science a "hoax," don't you even a little recognize the character of a carnival barker (remember Trump University?), or real estate promoter, at work?
Hurricanes Florence and Michael were exceptionally unusual hurricane events directly associated with global warming, especially of the oceans. Western wildfires are devastating our great western forests and increasing in frequency and intensity and becoming year-round events.
IMO, your "hoax" mindset is not only obviously false, but extremely dangerous as you seek to dismiss an existential threat to all of humanity.
Ignorance. We get that you are a committed man-made climate change denier.
Do you deny that ocean acidification is threatening the ocean food chain with mass extinctions? Do you deny the many empirical observations that document ocean acidification AND the significant warming of the world's oceans? The combined impacts of ocean warming and acidification already are destroying much of the world's coral, which provide a significant portion of mankind's protein and even much of our oxygen. Heck, do you even know about ocean acidification and global ocean warming???
The oceans have absorbed 93 percent of the excess heat resulting from greenhouse gas emissions since 1950.
The Miami Herald recently ran an editorial called "Combat climate change today for a tomorrow," warning of the myriad threats to our planet if we don't act decisively to wean ourselves from fossil fuels.
The authors of the most recent U.N. climate change panel report, released earlier this month, noted that the coral reef extinction threats and the wildfire conflagrations reported globally only became obvious climate change consequences in the last two years.
One reason that Ohioans may be complacent about man-made climate change is because our media mentions climate change evidence and environmental impacts only in passing. Please post an editorial from a major Ohio newspaper that mentions ocean acidification. This Miami Herald editorial even was more unique because it mentioned the possibility of a vicious feedback loop that could devastate human civilization much more rapidly than the mainline scientific projections released this month by the U.N. climate change panel.
What is this feedback loop? The massive thawing of the Arctic and deep oceans could release massive amounts of methane trapped in tundra and methane clathrates in the deep oceans. One study says that methane levels in the atmosphere could increase by a factor of 12 or much more, which is significant because methane is 80 times more potent as a greenhouse gas over a shorter time frame than carbon dioxide.
<<Shakhova et al. (2008) estimate that not less than 1,400 gigatonnes (Gt) of carbon is presently locked up as methane and methane hydrates under the Arctic submarine permafrost, and 5–10% of that area is subject to puncturing by open taliks. They conclude that "release of up to 50 Gt of predicted amount of hydrate storage [is] highly possible for abrupt release at any time". That would increase the methane content of the planet's atmosphere by a factor of twelve.>>
You are not funny as IMO your post is not only disingenuous, but extremely uniformed about the impacts of man-made climate change resulting from fossil fuel burning. E.g., Harold Wanless, chairman of the geological sciences department, warns an accelerating Greenland and Anarctica ice melt would inundate much of southern Florida by 2100 with a 15-foot sea level rise.
You and other man-made climate change deniers persistently claim to know more than climate change scientists, who are among the best and brightest of humanity, yet you substantiate nothing.
Do you actually believe that Donald Trump, as he repeatedly claims, knows more about everything than anybody? When Trump calls man-made climate change science a "hoax," don't you even a little recognize the character of a carnival barker (remember Trump University?), or real estate promoter, at work?
Hurricanes Florence and Michael were exceptionally unusual hurricane events directly associated with global warming, especially of the oceans. Western wildfires are devastating our great western forests and increasing in frequency and intensity and becoming year-round events.
IMO, your "hoax" mindset is not only obviously false, but extremely dangerous as you seek to dismiss an existential threat to all of humanity.
You're the ignorant one, can't get out of your own way. Not the first time I've seen you post such garbage about a topic. Think you are so much more informed than everyone else because you post long, well written opinions. You are believing what you want to on this issue, not open to the obvious truth staring you in your face.
Clearly, I mentioned I read up on the subject when nutty Al Gore and others started hyping up so-called man-made global warming. If you want to submit to the brainwashing, go for it, just don't expect the rest of us to believe or pay for it the way the Paris deal would have had the United States doing. Nothing more than a transfer of money out of our country.
Climate's always changing, stop buying into the fallacy man is creating it. You are attributing hurricanes and forest fires with man-made global warming? Oh boy.
You're the ignorant one, can't get out of your own way. Not the first time I've seen you post such garbage about a topic. Think you are so much more informed than everyone else because you post long, well written opinions. You are believing what you want to on this issue, not open to the obvious truth staring you in your face.
Clearly, I mentioned I read up on the subject when nutty Al Gore and others started hyping up so-called man-made global warming. If you want to submit to the brainwashing, go for it, just don't expect the rest of us to believe or pay for it the way the Paris deal would have had the United States doing. Nothing more than a transfer of money out of our country.
Climate's always changing, stop buying into the fallacy man is creating it. You are attributing hurricanes and forest fires with man-made global warming? Oh boy.
See post 19 regarding mankind's massive burning of fossil fuels in the last century.
The root of your ignorance is the unstated belief that none of the massive amount of pollution resulting from the burning of fossil fuels has any impact on the environment.
You seem to belief that the measured rise of ocean acidity, which scientists can measure and explain to any decent high school general science and chemistry student, is some unexplained magic of nature that is converting the oceans into an environment inhospitable to coral, shellfish, and other marine life. The logical, and chemically explainable, scientific explanation is that the oceans are absorbing massive amounts of excess carbon dioxide produced by burning fossil fuels and converting the carbon dioxide into carbonic acid But this scientific explanation of scientists to you is rubbish, part of your "hoax."
Similarly, you believe the magic of nature is responsible for melting the world's ice, warming the oceans, thermal ocean expansion (you do now that water expands as it is heated, don't you?), etc. Sea level rise already is in the process of inundating Miami Beach, FL, and other low-lying coastal areas globally, even entire island nations.
None of this matters to you because your intellect is so great that, like Donald Trump, you can determine that all of the climate change scientists are liars and engaged in a grand, conspiratorial "hoax." So we should believe in your magical, unsubstantiated explanation of climate change, and pretend like the massive, still increasing burning of fossil fuels has no consequences.
Or we can believe that what we have been warned about for several decades by climate change scientists is now manifesting itself in our environment.
What bothers me is that we have a federal government run by climate change deniers that actually is promoting more fossil fuel burning and resisting efforts, such as in states like California, to transition away from fossil fuels.
The ocean coral is dying, and unless we act quickly, perhaps storing coral species in environmental holding tanks across the world, we may lose any chance to save these important life-giving organisms from extinction. Of course, effectively putting species in marine zoos means little if we don't halt ASAP the destruction of our environment and allow the planet the centuries needed to recover from the damage already done.
Scientists are telling us that the failure to act may result in famines, massive inundation of highly populated coastal areas, massive reduction of marine life, even reduced oxygen production by the world's oceans, much higher atmospheric temperatures, etc., with all of the civil strife that will accompany these consequences.
I'm going with the scientists on climate change science and I believe that climate change deniers are a conspiracy of dunces and too often liars. Whenever I hear a Republican Congressperson say that man-made climate change science is uncertain, I personally gag in disgust.
Hopefully, the majority of Americans are capable of rational thought and still believe in science based on empirical observation rather than the hubristic ignorance of man-made climate change deniers and the "greeders" who manipulate them.
The Paris agreement was working though. It was a testament to the problem that virtually the entire world agreed to it. And the US would still be part of it if we didn’t have ignorant, self-serving sociopaths running the country now. Then again, the citizens got the leadership they deserve. It’s just too bad we’re all screwed
You're the ignorant one, can't get out of your own way. Not the first time I've seen you post such garbage about a topic. Think you are so much more informed than everyone else because you post long, well written opinions. You are believing what you want to on this issue, not open to the obvious truth staring you in your face.
Clearly, I mentioned I read up on the subject when nutty Al Gore and others started hyping up so-called man-made global warming. If you want to submit to the brainwashing, go for it, just don't expect the rest of us to believe or pay for it the way the Paris deal would have had the United States doing. Nothing more than a transfer of money out of our country.
Climate's always changing, stop buying into the fallacy man is creating it. You are attributing hurricanes and forest fires with man-made global warming? Oh boy.
You don't address any of the facts. Why don't you post your thorough refutation since you're "so well informed" on these issues. All I see is rambling on about "conspiracies", "Al Gore", "brainwashing", "obvious truth"...
You have no science. No data. No deductive logic. All you have on this subject is..."I read something 20 years ago and just looked out my window. It's cold and rainy so it's all a hoax."
I think you're the one that needs some humility.
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